I just don’t understand us men sometimes....

[Jarrod_Uncut]

This is almost an addition to another thread about a client’s looks. But this is more of a general thing. I don’t know if it’s just the type of men I come across, or if it’s something more to it. Maybe a fact of dynamics between escort/client/former client/escort etc.

 

Specifically referring: there’s a guy who hired me (and I say it in past tense) once, but there was an attraction on both ends. We started seeing (aka fucking) each other regularly after that, but there was like a 2 week break in between time we met. However we also do things outside of sex as well, which has almost turned it into dating if sorts.

 

All is well except, he decided to take on a job in Texas for 6-8 weeks. Since then, we’ve discussed linking up down there. Tonight we texted in depth about it, and we seemed to have gotten into a conflict about me coming down.

 

He seems to think he doesn’t need to provide any money to me for coming down (neither before or after), despite the fact it’s a 900 mile trip, and he would only be able to spend 1 day with me. I told him I could turn it into a “tour” and take clients before and after, and reserve a day for him. But that would mean I would have to preserve and manage my stamina and resources for clients, not our time. And even if I did come tour, where he is “stationed” is 4 hours from San Antonio and 6 hours from Houston: the 2 nearest major escort-populated cities. So that would mean me taking off not just a day, but possibly 2 days from taking clients, and likely being maxed out sexually after our time....considering he likes to go at it 2 or 3 times a day.

 

He tells me he don’t think he needs to give me any money, because it would be leisure travel. I said no the heck it won’t. I don’t travel for leisure. Anytime I travel, is a mix of work and pleasure. And I certainly wouldn’t be traveling for leisure to only see him for 1 day. If I’m going 4 to 6 hours drive outside the nearest major city where I can earn money, I need to be reimbursed because I’d technically be paying for all my expenses out of pocket, while he’s getting all expenses paid by his company and making 80 hours a week.

 

Then he has the nerve to say I’m insulting him and seeing him as a sugar daddy. I almost said fuck you, mother fucker. But instead I said fair enuf...but I’m just about to cut ties. I just don’t get why gay men like to keep up drama 24/7 and complicate situations. If someone is planning on going out of their way and visiting someone for the purpose of sex or romantic interest, that person being visited should have the decency to pay for something for that person spending their money. Unless it just absolutely is a client visiting an escort type of deal, because obviously the escort is trying to earn regardless.

 

So idk, this just got me pent up. 2 arguments with 2 different men this week. It’s really draining me. Men can be so fucking unreasonable when it comes down to things. And lot of gay men wonder why they are single. They don’t know how to treat a partner. Everytime the partner asks for something, they think they’re being used or taken advantage of. Gay men never want to help just to help. They only help when they can get something out of it. Then once they get what they want, they don’t feel it’s worth going out of their comfort zone bubble anymore.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Monarchy79]

First... I love your posts and I truly appreciate your sharing. It’s honest, insightful, and transparent.

That takes a lot of courage....

 

Now in terms of this situation.... I must tell you (with love ❤) that this is your fault.. LOL...

 

Here’s why:

 

The moment you started doing things within him outside of the structure of sex, and the confines of the pleasurable (yet) transactional activities, he was able to re-define your “Relationship” (whether you confirmed it verbally or not).

 

Unfortunately, you’re now able to see why this man is also single... he’s cheap, and has no sense of ettiquette. If you were his boyfriend, or you two were truly dating, that would have been even more of a reason for him to at least offer to cover some of your expenses to come and see him. To be honest, as the relationship progressed, he should have expected his role to be that of a sugar daddy....

 

Although you were technically correct in your actions and beliefs in this scenario, AND the scenario with the other guy with dental issues, I think you haven’t grasped the idea of “reality”. This is what I mean:

 

A persons reality is created in their own mind. Their reality can be filled with lies, delusions, ridiculous principles, and beliefs that make absolutely no sense, but if they confirm it as their reality, it’s “real”, to them.

 

Now for you, you’re scratching your head, as in many cases, their reality is not only ridiculous, but you wind up even more frustrated as you don’t see any logic in it.

 

That’s because there is no logic.

 

Remember that you are in the business of fantasy.

your experiences with your client base isn’t technically real, your “feelings” for them aren’t exactly “real”, and the confidence they may have about their own image, by being sexed by a beautiful guy isn’t real either (this is specifically why he was “offended” at the idea of being a sugar daddy... his pride and delusions)

 

Once you start giving these guys truth, honesty, and logic, it causes a total disconnect, because they’ve been living in total cognitive dissonance the entire time, until you brought forth reality and the truth like a ton of bricks....

[Lazarus]

Save yourself a lot of aggravation. Wait until he comes back to wherever you are in 6 to 8 weeks & decide then if you want to see him again. It doesn’t make sense for you there to see him for only one day. If you do go down there, place an ad in the area you are in for a few days & see if you can find anyone to see within a 70 mile radius. If it’s dead & you are up to it go to SA or Houston & forget about going back to see him. Sounds like if you do go down there things are going to get ugly real quick. I am very close to saying: This relationship is over!

[+ sync]

I'm on team @Jarrod_Uncut for this one. That was an outrageous demand from someone who knows your revenue is on-the-clock dependent with no reimbursable expense account or company credit card, and he is unwilling to offer any financial considerations. If he is special to you, it may be helpful for you to make it clear to him that the revenue structures of your two professions are very different. Good luck.

[jeezifonly]

Jarrod, have you seen “Moonstruck”?

 

Rose (Olympia Dukakis) converses w/ a man her age (John Mahoney) a professor who likes to fuck his female students, after he just got rudely and publicly dumped by his latest young thing. He asks Rose for advice. She warns him about mixing business with pleasure, relaying an old saying from her mother: “Don’t shit where you eat”

 

Now, as a versatile ass-eater, I can see that the quote is ...clumsy, here. Your work is all about mixing business and pleasure.

But understand, in this mixing, YOU are the one responsible for how much of your pro time overlaps personal time. It’s one thing to not be a clock watcher. From your post I take that you allowed him to spend time with you “dating” without compensation. Unfortunately, that’s what opened the door for misinterpretation on his part - he was being treated like a boyfriend for a minute, and because you also enjoyed spending time with him, you missed the opportunity to clarify your professional view of “relationship goals” with him.

It’s the the messiest part in this sport isn’t it?

- sex brings feelings and feelings blur the boundaries, which are the Provider’s to set and maintain, rather than the Client’s.

 

You haven’t spent the money on a flight, right? You haven’t rejected local bookings, right?

Lesson learned, move on. Accept it as a compliment to your skills at providing a BFE and hey, now you’re better equipped to tell the diff between crap and chocolate soufflé...

Let the client know up front how your time on the clock works, and then stick to it. Date only guys who have never been a client, so as to not give the clients you have (and want to keep) from misunderstanding your attention and generosity with your time. Sorry it all blew up for you. You’ll be okay. Not all clients are pigs.

 

ps

In Moonstruck, Loretta (Cher) in reply to a confession of love, face-slaps Johnny (Nick Cage) not once, but twice...

“Snap out of it!!”

[D21howie]

This is almost an addition to another thread about a client’s looks. But this is more of a general thing. I don’t know if it’s just the type of men I come across, or if it’s something more to it. Maybe a fact of dynamics between escort/client/former client/escort etc.

 

Specifically referring: there’s a guy who hired me (and I say it in past tense) once, but there was an attraction on both ends. We started seeing (aka fucking) each other regularly after that, but there was like a 2 week break in between time we met. However we also do things outside of sex as well, which has almost turned it into dating if sorts.

 

All is well except, he decided to take on a job in Texas for 6-8 weeks. Since then, we’ve discussed linking up down there. Tonight we texted in depth about it, and we seemed to have gotten into a conflict about me coming down.

 

He seems to think he doesn’t need to provide any money to me for coming down (neither before or after), despite the fact it’s a 900 mile trip, and he would only be able to spend 1 day with me. I told him I could turn it into a “tour” and take clients before and after, and reserve a day for him. But that would mean I would have to preserve and manage my stamina and resources for clients, not our time. And even if I did come tour, where he is “stationed” is 4 hours from San Antonio and 6 hours from Houston: the 2 nearest major escort-populated cities. So that would mean me taking off not just a day, but possibly 2 days from taking clients, and likely being maxed out sexually after our time....considering he likes to go at it 2 or 3 times a day.

 

He tells me he don’t think he needs to give me any money, because it would be leisure travel. I said no the heck it won’t. I don’t travel for leisure. Anytime I travel, is a mix of work and pleasure. And I certainly wouldn’t be traveling for leisure to only see him for 1 day. If I’m going 4 to 6 hours drive outside the nearest major city where I can earn money, I need to be reimbursed because I’d technically be paying for all my expenses out of pocket, while he’s getting all expenses paid by his company and making 80 hours a week.

 

Then he has the nerve to say I’m insulting him and seeing him as a sugar daddy. I almost said fuck you, mother fucker. But instead I said fair enuf...but I’m just about to cut ties. I just don’t get why gay men like to keep up drama 24/7 and complicate situations. If someone is planning on going out of their way and visiting someone for the purpose of sex or romantic interest, that person being visited should have the decency to pay for something for that person spending their money. Unless it just absolutely is a client visiting an escort type of deal, because obviously the escort is trying to earn regardless.

 

So idk, this just got me pent up. 2 arguments with 2 different men this week. It’s really draining me. Men can be so fucking unreasonable when it comes down to things. And lot of gay men wonder why they are single. They don’t know how to treat a partner. Everytime the partner asks for something, they think they’re being used or taken advantage of. Gay men never want to help just to help. They only help when they can get something out of it. Then once they get what they want, they don’t feel it’s worth going out of their comfort zone bubble anymore.

I agree with you. Relationships are about two people coming together. My boyfriend and I share in the costs of different things such as gas, drinks, rooms, etc etc. To me the guy is using you. If you have not pay for anything dump the fool and move on.

[orville]

hi @Jarrod_Uncut I'm not sure if I understood well ALL the details but I think both have some guilt:

 

1) You for allowing the relationship to become personal. Better look for hookups outside of the business.

2) Your ex-client for not understanding your work and for being cheap.

 

Since this relationship is not business anymore, from the moment you disclose that you will see clients he's feeling insulted. Perhaps it was unnecessary to say it? Next, you start discussing expenses. From that moment everything goes downwards no matter how you want to rationalize it because emotions are already in play.

 

"Money is money,

but money is held by People,

who have Emotions"

 

If you put yourself in his shoes, you could see how he could think: "Ok, he will see other people but why should I pay for additional expenses if I'm special and we've known each other for long?! I should at least have some sort of priority! He should charge expenses to others, not me!" Let's imagine you did that tour anyway, without him as a factor, wouldn't you pay your expenses out of pocket hoping that you'd compensate later with the clients you'd see during your time traveling? From the moment you disclosed you'll see clients, in his mind it will never make any sense that you ask HIM for money.

 

Next time you are in the same situation (hopefully not) you could just say: "Hey, sure, I would also like to see you. Since it's a long trip I would appreciate it if you could help me with expenses for gas and food, which would be $XXX, but if it's a problem I understand and I look forward to seeing you when you come back". And let him make his decision. No need to argue over money (that makes you look greedy) or talking about seeing clients because that is YOUR BUSINESS, and you made your relationship with him already "personal".

Edited August 16, 2020 by orville

[+ sniper]

I think part of it is simply you haven't been together that long . But yes he's cheap. I would have presented it to him as "i'd like to but I don't think I can quite swing it and see if he offered help with the ticket.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Thanks everyone for the detailed answers. And excuse me if I seemed to be generalizing or airing dirty ? ? laundry lol.

 

@Monarchy79 and @jeezifonly, that Definitely addresses dynamics that even after 11 years in the hobby, I still haven’t subconsciously been able to articulate lol. After so long, everything feels “real” to me, and fantasy and reality just become 1 in the same. But I’m realizing I may need to check myself and make sure I’m not giving too much fantasy, to where they forget reality lol.

 

That said: I did explain further to the guy as I did in this post, about how my tours and finances work. And that I’m already at reduced capacity, due to COVID, and being in a sucky market already, and trying to save for an incall spot.

 

And @orville you’re spot on deciphering what he likely was thinking. But I had to break it DOWN to him in like 5 text paragraphs lol. He was like, “well if you wanted gas money, you shoulda just said you wanted gas money” (btw I don’t really do the flying me in stuff, so even though it sounds bat-shit crazy to drive all that way, technically that’s what I would “prefer” to do when I travel). It also opens the opportunity to stop in cities along the way, which can work provided there’s clients in each location.

 

However, I had to explain to him: I wasn’t asking for gas money lol. I’m not a 20 year old. I just turned 33 last week. Gas is the cheapest it’s been in years, I can afford gas lol. It’s everything else. I told him even if I do go down there, I have to factor in the WHOLE thing, even though I wouldn’t be asking to be paid for the whole trip. Me taking clients on a tour, would merely be for my daily expenses and regular bills. Not for the overall trip to see him.

 

Not to mention, I told him there’s no guarantee that I would get the number of clients I need to even make a profit. I’ve made many trips to Texas, only to either be expecting more or breaking even. So to hell would I want to come down there, see him, stretch my finances out of my own pocket...while he’s getting daily food allowances and hotels paid for, plus a big check? I asked him this morning, help me fucking understand how in the WORLD are you insulted, based on the facts?

 

He got the picture then, and changed his tune. Sometimes I don’t know what people think we as escorts are. Do they really think we’re wiping our cum with $100 bills? I have to remind these guys: RentMen alone isn’t paying our daily expenses or transportation costs. It’s not an agency. We pay them. Clients pay us. And that pay is not in addition to a “allowance” or “stipend”.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

And I’ll add different topic than above:

 

the reason why I say it about men being sensitive and easily offended: it’s not been the first time it’s happened. Different guy, same attitude.

 

I’ve had a few situations where the slightest disagreement or differing opinions about something will send guys in a rage. Even if it’s a super passive aggressive rage. One guy last year, got pissed and ended our “stay here in between clients while you’re visiting town...” roommate situation, simply because I asked to invite over a guy who I happened to met before, who was another masseur...despite the fact I wasn’t even using the spot for incalls.

 

Me and the roommate weren’t even fucking or dating or in any paid dynamic (he did hire me when we first met couple years prior). He just got up the next morning and told me to leave because I simply asked, which apparently I shouldn’t have. No notice or chat or anything. We had chatted on and off for over a year while he moved to Atlanta from Denver, and back. Never heard from him again.

 

It was just an example of how it seems you have to use extra extra caution not to offend a gay guy in any way. And that’s almost impossible to do. Because it’s like no matter how hard you try to not offend, they will FIND a way to be offended by something, that didn’t even require being offended to begin with. Just merely asking a question or stating an opinion, has ended whole friendships.

 

I’ve even had to check myself on it. Like, was it even worth being offended over ? But in many cases it was...if what they were saying was condescending or judgmental.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[dbar123]

Somehow (unless I'm missing something) this seems pretty straightforward. You could have told him that you don't have a spare $900 for travel to devote to this....and if he wants you to come, then he can pay for it. Then the money issue would have been outside the client/friend interface. Sounds like both of you were being a bit sensitive about it.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Somehow (unless I'm missing something) this seems pretty straightforward. You could have told him that you don't have a spare $900 for travel to devote to this....and if he wants you to come, then he can pay for it. Then the money issue would have been outside the client/friend interface. Sounds like both of you were being a bit sensitive about it.

 

Thanks. But it wouldn’t of mattered how I said it. His whole thing, based on what he mentioned...was that I would simply travel along the way and work, and then come see him for that day. It sounds good on paper IF I was already headed that direction, but like I said...I don’t tour Texas like that anymore (even though I did hit Dallas last month, on a spur of moment).

 

That’s pretty much how I said it. He was offended that I said anything about him paying for it (and I even told him an amount) I explained to him: Any money I make along the way would be for my daily expenses and towards my income for the week. Hotels, food, money set aside for unexpected emergencies is factored into that. He even had the nerve to say, “so stop asking me.” I said, “I’m not asking I’m TELLING YOU, I’m not revolving a tour around seeing you for 1 day”.

 

And he even said, “if you needed gas money, you could have just said that”. And I’m like no, no, no lol. I wasn’t trying to say that. I said exactly what I wanted to say: if I go down to see him, I need a whole week hotel paid for (his company doesn’t allow him to have guests over) and/or cushion money for the effort and expense coming down. I been filling my tank up twice a week these past few weeks, traveling. I can afford gas lol

 

I learned that lesson the hard way earlier this year: Went to visit a client for our bi-annual Florida Keys trip. He paid me 1/4 in advance and the rest when I got down there. Even though it was well worth my while, and I took a few clients along the way (and of course, that has to be done carefully as to not tire oneself out)...a week after our session, I was already depleted of the funds I earned due to unexpected emergencies. Add the fact it was high season in Florida and hotels weren’t cheap, and business was garbage the whole week.

 

That just created a ripple effect, to where a weekend trip, ended up with me being “stuck” there for over a month...then coronavirus hit. I told my client, I won’t be making anymore trips to Florida EVER unless I fly in directly and have a rental car. And go during off season where I can rent a car, because I was there and every place was sold out. Thank God for COVID-19, because the last week I was there in mid-March, I was finally able to get a break.

 

I’m getting to a point, I feel the need to start demanding more from guys. When I hear guys are getting paid $2,000 a week, AND having all their hotels and expenses paid for, how much fucking more do I deserve? I don’t want gas money lol. Pay for me a room someplace for a week, and pay me gas money for coming, AND pay me $500 for the effort and wear and tear of coming lol.

 

Sometimes you have to just teach them, how you want to be treated. But some gay guys have a problem with having their fellow gay guy, being even remotely more comfortable than they are. They think anytime they give something, they are being a sugar daddy. No. Understand what the I been thru 1st, and see it’s nothing about trying to get off on someone. It’s just not fair for someone who’s making more money with less expenses coming out of it, to make a person with less money and more expenses coming out of it, use it towards expenses needed to get 2 people together.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[MscleLovr]

My 2 cents: you had an argument with a man that you’ve been “dating of sorts” for a short time. I’m not sure it’s helpful to allocate fault.

 

You had transactional sex with this man. Then you went on to enjoy more sex with him, and you say you did “things outside of sex” together. So the boundaries became very blurred. Did either of you say anything about having feelings for the other man?

 

He moved to Texas for 6-8 weeks for work. You say he could only spare 1 day if you went to see him there. It’s not clear who suggested you visit. At this stage, you’re definitely not ‘partners’; you’re just dating each other and it’s not exclusive because of your work. If it was your idea, then I feel you should offer to pay the cost of going there. If it was his idea that you visit, I’d expect him to offer to pay your travel costs.

 

I certainly don’t agree with the last paragraph of your original post, essentially that gay men are unreasonable. I also don’t think that gay men are too sensitive or likely to take offence. Money is the major cause of disagreement among heterosexual couples (according to marriage/relationship counselors that I know). I can tell you that the reason I fell so hard 6 years ago for the young man I live with is that he bought me gifts, arranged surprise trips, insisted on picking up the dinner-check etc. These may seem small things but, as an older man, I had become used to thinking first of the younger man and used to always paying. His caring for me and his actions made me realise how much I wanted an equal relationship.

 

I feel you have to draw clear and strong boundaries around your work (transactional sex) and your dating life (where sex and everything else has to be mutually negotiated) if you are to avoid future arguments and conflict.

[dbar123]

Thanks. But it wouldn’t of mattered how I said it. His whole thing, based on what he mentioned...was that I would simply travel along the way and work, and then come see him for that day. It sounds good on paper IF I was already headed that direction, but like I said...I don’t tour Texas like that anymore (even though I did hit Dallas last month, on a spur of moment).

 

That’s pretty much how I said it. He was offended that I said anything about him paying for it (and I even told him an amount) I explained to him: Any money I make along the way would be for my daily expenses and towards my income for the week. Hotels, food, money set aside for unexpected emergencies is factored into that. He even had the nerve to say, “so stop asking me.” I said, “I’m not asking I’m TELLING YOU, I’m not revolving a tour around seeing you for 1 day”.

 

And he even said, “if you needed gas money, you could have just said that”. And I’m like no, no, no lol. I wasn’t trying to say that. I said exactly what I wanted to say: if I go down to see him, I need a whole week hotel paid for (his company doesn’t allow him to have guests over) and/or cushion money for the effort and expense coming down. I been filling my tank up twice a week these past few weeks, traveling. I can afford gas lol

 

I learned that lesson the hard way earlier this year: Went to visit a client for our bi-annual Florida Keys trip. He paid me 1/4 in advance and the rest when I got down there. Even though it was well worth my while, and I took a few clients along the way (and of course, that has to be done carefully as to not tire oneself out)...a week after our session, I was already depleted of the funds I earned due to unexpected emergencies. Add the fact it was high season in Florida and hotels weren’t cheap, and business was garbage the whole week.

 

That just created a ripple effect, to where a weekend trip, ended up with me being “stuck” there for over a month...then coronavirus hit. I told my client, I won’t be making anymore trips to Florida EVER unless I fly in directly and have a rental car. And go during off season where I can rent a car, because I was there and every place was sold out. Thank God for COVID-19, because the last week I was there in mid-March, I was finally able to get a break.

 

I’m getting to a point, I feel the need to start demanding more from guys. When I hear guys are getting paid $2,000 a week, AND having all their hotels and expenses paid for, how much fucking more do I deserve? I don’t want gas money lol. Pay for me a room someplace for a week, and pay me gas money for coming, AND pay me $500 for the effort and wear and tear of coming lol.

 

Sometimes you have to just teach them, how you want to be treated. But some gay guys have a problem with having their fellow gay guy, being even remotely more comfortable than they are. They think anytime they give something, they are being a sugar daddy. No. Understand what the I been thru 1st, and see it’s nothing about trying to get off on someone. It’s just not fair for someone who’s making more money with less expenses coming out of it, to make a person with less money and more expenses coming out of it, use it towards expenses needed to get 2 people together.

 

Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

[xyz48B]

@Jarrod_Uncut - Have you considered seeing a therapist?

[marylander1940]

This is almost an addition to another thread about a client’s looks. But this is more of a general thing. I don’t know if it’s just the type of men I come across, or if it’s something more to it. Maybe a fact of dynamics between escort/client/former client/escort etc.

 

Specifically referring: there’s a guy who hired me (and I say it in past tense) once, but there was an attraction on both ends. We started seeing (aka fucking) each other regularly after that, but there was like a 2 week break in between time we met. However we also do things outside of sex as well, which has almost turned it into dating if sorts.

 

All is well except, he decided to take on a job in Texas for 6-8 weeks. Since then, we’ve discussed linking up down there. Tonight we texted in depth about it, and we seemed to have gotten into a conflict about me coming down.

 

He seems to think he doesn’t need to provide any money to me for coming down (neither before or after), despite the fact it’s a 900 mile trip, and he would only be able to spend 1 day with me. I told him I could turn it into a “tour” and take clients before and after, and reserve a day for him. But that would mean I would have to preserve and manage my stamina and resources for clients, not our time. And even if I did come tour, where he is “stationed” is 4 hours from San Antonio and 6 hours from Houston: the 2 nearest major escort-populated cities. So that would mean me taking off not just a day, but possibly 2 days from taking clients, and likely being maxed out sexually after our time....considering he likes to go at it 2 or 3 times a day.

 

He tells me he don’t think he needs to give me any money, because it would be leisure travel. I said no the heck it won’t. I don’t travel for leisure. Anytime I travel, is a mix of work and pleasure. And I certainly wouldn’t be traveling for leisure to only see him for 1 day. If I’m going 4 to 6 hours drive outside the nearest major city where I can earn money, I need to be reimbursed because I’d technically be paying for all my expenses out of pocket, while he’s getting all expenses paid by his company and making 80 hours a week.

 

Then he has the nerve to say I’m insulting him and seeing him as a sugar daddy. I almost said fuck you, mother fucker. But instead I said fair enuf...but I’m just about to cut ties. I just don’t get why gay men like to keep up drama 24/7 and complicate situations. If someone is planning on going out of their way and visiting someone for the purpose of sex or romantic interest, that person being visited should have the decency to pay for something for that person spending their money. Unless it just absolutely is a client visiting an escort type of deal, because obviously the escort is trying to earn regardless.

 

So idk, this just got me pent up. 2 arguments with 2 different men this week. It’s really draining me. Men can be so fucking unreasonable when it comes down to things. And lot of gay men wonder why they are single. They don’t know how to treat a partner. Everytime the partner asks for something, they think they’re being used or taken advantage of. Gay men never want to help just to help. They only help when they can get something out of it. Then once they get what they want, they don’t feel it’s worth going out of their comfort zone bubble anymore.

 

Once you start having sex for free with a client, he's no longer a client he's a fuck buddy, date, bf, etc.

 

Maybe it's time to redefine the relationship again or end it.

[RealAvalon]

Your work is all about mixing business and pleasure.

 

Is it? Isn't it pleasure as a business?

 

I've been reading a lot of auto-biographies of sex trade workers recently.

[Rudynate]

This is almost an addition to another thread about a client’s looks. But this is more of a general thing. I don’t know if it’s just the type of men I come across, or if it’s something more to it. Maybe a fact of dynamics between escort/client/former client/escort etc.

 

Specifically referring: there’s a guy who hired me (and I say it in past tense) once, but there was an attraction on both ends. We started seeing (aka fucking) each other regularly after that, but there was like a 2 week break in between time we met. However we also do things outside of sex as well, which has almost turned it into dating if sorts.

 

All is well except, he decided to take on a job in Texas for 6-8 weeks. Since then, we’ve discussed linking up down there. Tonight we texted in depth about it, and we seemed to have gotten into a conflict about me coming down.

 

He seems to think he doesn’t need to provide any money to me for coming down (neither before or after), despite the fact it’s a 900 mile trip, and he would only be able to spend 1 day with me. I told him I could turn it into a “tour” and take clients before and after, and reserve a day for him. But that would mean I would have to preserve and manage my stamina and resources for clients, not our time. And even if I did come tour, where he is “stationed” is 4 hours from San Antonio and 6 hours from Houston: the 2 nearest major escort-populated cities. So that would mean me taking off not just a day, but possibly 2 days from taking clients, and likely being maxed out sexually after our time....considering he likes to go at it 2 or 3 times a day.

 

He tells me he don’t think he needs to give me any money, because it would be leisure travel. I said no the heck it won’t. I don’t travel for leisure. Anytime I travel, is a mix of work and pleasure. And I certainly wouldn’t be traveling for leisure to only see him for 1 day. If I’m going 4 to 6 hours drive outside the nearest major city where I can earn money, I need to be reimbursed because I’d technically be paying for all my expenses out of pocket, while he’s getting all expenses paid by his company and making 80 hours a week.

 

Then he has the nerve to say I’m insulting him and seeing him as a sugar daddy. I almost said fuck you, mother fucker. But instead I said fair enuf...but I’m just about to cut ties. I just don’t get why gay men like to keep up drama 24/7 and complicate situations. If someone is planning on going out of their way and visiting someone for the purpose of sex or romantic interest, that person being visited should have the decency to pay for something for that person spending their money. Unless it just absolutely is a client visiting an escort type of deal, because obviously the escort is trying to earn regardless.

 

So idk, this just got me pent up. 2 arguments with 2 different men this week. It’s really draining me. Men can be so fucking unreasonable when it comes down to things. And lot of gay men wonder why they are single. They don’t know how to treat a partner. Everytime the partner asks for something, they think they’re being used or taken advantage of. Gay men never want to help just to help. They only help when they can get something out of it. Then once they get what they want, they don’t feel it’s worth going out of their comfort zone bubble anymore.

 

 

 

What did I say about blurring boundaries? Just like with the other guy, your relationship with this guy is ambiguous. Ambiguity leads to misunderstandings.

[RealAvalon]

Once you start having sex for free with a client, he's no longer a client he's a fuck buddy, date, bf, etc.

 

Maybe it's time to redefine the relationship again or end it.

It's hard to unscramble a cum shot an egg

[marylander1940]

It's hard to unscramble a cum shot an egg

 

or putting the paste back in the tube...

 

your metaphor wins though!

[+ E.T.Bass]

If you weren't planning on a vacation and Texas isn't on your list of places to blow your travel budget anyway, one could have left it at that. Might have been better to wait for him to come up with the idea about flying you down and back, since you've already blurred the boundaries between, as mentioned above. Seems tricky, your expections and his. I can see how someone might take offense when a friend dismisses the other's situation, escalates the argument and won't let go of it

[xyz48B]

@Jarrod_Uncut – Blurred boundaries are the whole source of this. If it’s important to you, set him down and explain how you feel. You are not a man of few words or hesitant to share your thoughts and opinions. Use that same hutzpah here. If he is just a client, it shouldn’t bother you if he exits your life over it. Just a client after all. But if he’s more than just a client, then you have to figure out how you’re handling it. And you can fairly expect him to be treated as “just a client” in that case. In other words, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

[RealAvalon]

This thread and @purplekow 's thread about 'Dinner at a friend's" have a similar theme of blurred lines.

Is he a client or a friend?

Is she a patient or a friend?

 

Maybe some lines need to be black and white and not grey? Which is a pain in the ass, if that's not one's nature.

[xyz48B]

Maybe some lines need to be black and white and not grey? Which is a pain in the ass, if that's not one's nature.

In my work, we call that “boundaries.” And it’s always the provider’s job to keep them.

[Rudynate]

And I’ll add different topic than above:

 

the reason why I say it about men being sensitive and easily offended: it’s not been the first time it’s happened. Different guy, same attitude.

 

I’ve had a few situations where the slightest disagreement or differing opinions about something will send guys in a rage. Even if it’s a super passive aggressive rage. One guy last year, got pissed and ended our “stay here in between clients while you’re visiting town...” roommate situation, simply because I asked to invite over a guy who I happened to met before, who was another masseur...despite the fact I wasn’t even using the spot for incalls.

 

Me and the roommate weren’t even fucking or dating or in any paid dynamic (he did hire me when we first met couple years prior). He just got up the next morning and told me to leave because I simply asked, which apparently I shouldn’t have. No notice or chat or anything. We had chatted on and off for over a year while he moved to Atlanta from Denver, and back. Never heard from him again.

 

It was just an example of how it seems you have to use extra extra caution not to offend a gay guy in any way. And that’s almost impossible to do. Because it’s like no matter how hard you try to not offend, they will FIND a way to be offended by something, that didn’t even require being offended to begin with. Just merely asking a question or stating an opinion, has ended whole friendships.

 

I’ve even had to check myself on it. Like, was it even worth being offended over ? But in many cases it was...if what they were saying was condescending or judgmental.

 

 

Guys with little experience at hiring feel extremely vulnerable - they're expecting to get screwed, expecting it won't work out for one reason or other and are just very nervous. There are some escorts who can deal with that - very often they advertise as being "good with first timers." You may not be one of those.