COVID Gains After Mask Rules Dropped

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

...plenty of people are getting seriously ill and ending up in hospital...

Well, it's always been true that plenty of people get ill and end up in the hospital. It's just that at this time, SARS-CoV2 has nothing to do with it (for the most part), at least in the US, and I suspect elsewhere. 

25 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

... I trust my grasp of reality...

Well, delusional people usually do. And no amount of disagreement from countless public health officials will dissuade you of your delusions. That's why they're called delusions.

[+ Lucky]

The Desert Sun newspaper reveals a dramatic increase in Covid cases. You actually see many more people masking up as a result:

Riverside County COVID-19 case numbers have jumped 736% in just two weeks, and now hospitalizations have also started to climb.

Between Tuesday and Friday, Riverside County added 1,279 COVID-19 cases. Compared to the previous week, that is a 70% increase from the 751 cases reported between May 3 and 6. Further, it represents a 736% increase from when there were just 153 COVID-19 cases reported between April 26 and 29.

The case and positivity rates in the county have steadily increased as well. The case rate was 11.9 per 100,000, and the positivity rate was 5.9% on Friday. On Tuesday, those rates were 10.2 per 100,000 and 5.1%. 

Hospitalizations, which have remained consistently low for several weeks, have also been impacted by rising case numbers. There were 62 patients on Friday, up 12 from Tuesday. That includes four people in intensive care, which actually decreased from eight reported on Tuesday. 

 

[Luv2play]

A young woman of my acquaintance contracted Covid over three weeks ago from her young child who was not vaccinated _( under 5). The child got it from her nanny. 

Now this young mother has developed long Covid and can't shake the symptoms. She has no underlying conditions. 

This is not like your everyday cold.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Lucky said:

The Desert Sun newspaper reveals a dramatic increase in Covid cases. You actually see many more people masking up as a result:

Riverside County COVID-19 case numbers have jumped 736% in just two weeks, and now hospitalizations have also started to climb.

Between Tuesday and Friday, Riverside County added 1,279 COVID-19 cases. Compared to the previous week, that is a 70% increase from the 751 cases reported between May 3 and 6. Further, it represents a 736% increase from when there were just 153 COVID-19 cases reported between April 26 and 29.

The case and positivity rates in the county have steadily increased as well. The case rate was 11.9 per 100,000, and the positivity rate was 5.9% on Friday. On Tuesday, those rates were 10.2 per 100,000 and 5.1%. 

Hospitalizations, which have remained consistently low for several weeks, have also been impacted by rising case numbers. There were 62 patients on Friday, up 12 from Tuesday. That includes four people in intensive care, which actually decreased from eight reported on Tuesday. 

The reason public health officials aren't alarmed, once again, is that "cases" are not the important metric. The fact that cases are through the roof while hospitalizations, and, especially, ICU admissions aren't, is actually a comforting sign, since it emphasizes how benign the virus is at this time. It's critical to remember that the statistics measure everyone admitted who tests positive, NOT those who are admitted because of the viral symptoms. With cases rising exponentially, it's inevitable that there be some increase in hospital admissions who test positive. That does not mean it's the virus which is putting people in the hospital. 

Had such an increase in cases been noted with Delta or prior variants, you can bet public health officials would be alarmed, and probably taken measures even stronger than masking mandates (which only decrease transmission by some 61%). But this is not the same virus as 6 months ago (let alone a year or two ago).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Luv2play said:

A young woman of my acquaintance contracted Covid over three weeks ago from her young child who was not vaccinated _( under 5). The child got it from her nanny. 

Now this young mother has developed long Covid and can't shake the symptoms. She has no underlying conditions. 

This is not like your everyday cold.

Once again, you're simply factually wrong and demonstrating your ignorance one more time.

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-Post_COVID-19_condition-Clinical_case_definition-2021.1

"Post COVID-19 condition occurs in individuals with a history of probable or confirmed SARS CoV-2 infection, usually 3 months from the onset of COVID-19 with symptoms and that last for at least 2 months and cannot be explained by an alternative diagnosis. Common symptoms include fatigue, shortness of breath, cognitive dysfunction but also others and generally have an impact on everyday functioning. Symptoms may be new onset following initial recovery from an acute COVID-19 episode or persist from the initial illness. Symptoms may also fluctuate or relapse over time."

So someone who's had symptoms for 3 weeks does NOT have long COVID. I have asthma, so whenever I have a cold my symptoms last for at least 3 weeks, often a month or longer. I had tons of patients who had similar experiences. I just helped a friend get over cold symptoms he'd had for over a month (he tested negative for the virus). Having symptoms for a few weeks after a cold is hardly unusual, and it's not long COVID. 

[Luv2play]

The article you quoted states the symptoms may persist from the initial illness. So we'll see. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Luv2play said:

The article you quoted states the symptoms may persist from the initial illness. So we'll see. 

And when the symptoms don't last 2 months, we can count on you to admit you were wrong and apologize. 🤣

[Luv2play]

When was the last time you apologized for being wrong? Like saying the vaccinated couldn't transmit the virus.

And omicron was so mild nobody was dying from it.

  In both cases you were proved wrong but never acknowledged it.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Luv2play

[mike carey]

Goose, gander.

[EZEtoGRU]

3 hours ago, Luv2play said:

When was the last time you apologized for being wrong? Like saying the vaccinated couldn't transmit the virus.

And omicron was so mild nobody was dying from it.

  In both cases you were proved wrong but never acknowledged it.

Don't even bother debating with him any more.  He's in some fantasy world unto himself pretending everything is hunky dory whilst Rome burns.

[+ Lucky]

7 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

Don't even bother debating with him any more.  He's in some fantasy world unto himself pretending everything is hunky dory whilst Rome burns.

I agree that the endless bickering with @Unicorn leads nowhere. Somehow he has the time to spend on the board constantly attempting to contradict any information that he doesn't like. No one is ever going to change his mind, so why bother? He is not here to discuss anything.

It's the same in the Politics forum where people like @BSRspend hours every day criticizing leftists. He is not there for a discussion either.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Luv2play said:

When was the last time you apologized for being wrong? Like saying the vaccinated couldn't transmit the virus.

And omicron was so mild nobody was dying from it.

  In both cases you were proved wrong but never acknowledged it.

The fact that the vaccinated couldn't transmit the virus was true at the time I said it: there had been zero reported instances of transmission from vaccinated people with the original strain (despite millions of transmissions researched). And I didn't say it was impossible--just that if it happened, it was so rare as to be negligible in scope (only fools think in absolute terms). The virus mutated, and the first cases of transmission from vaccinated individuals were reported AFTER I made that statement and AFTER the virus had mutated. I do no pretend to predict the future. The CDC agreed with me at the time, had guidelines stating vaccinated people didn't need to mask, then changed their guidelines after the virus mutated to a form which partially escaped the vaccine. AFTER the first cases of transmission from the vaccinated were reported, I conceded that, given changes in the virus itself, transmission from vaccinated was now possible. 

It is true, and always has been true, that essentially (nothing is 100% in medicine) no one is dying from omicron. Sure, there are people who are dying from heart attacks, stroke, and cancer in the hospital who happen to test positive on admission. That does not mean the virus is ultimately responsible for the deaths. Even then, the numbers at this time are ridiculously low. I'm not predicting that it's impossible for the virus to mutate to a more dangerous form. I'm just stating what is the case at this time. 

The southern hemisphere is in the late Fall, heading into Winter. As we do every year in looking at influenza strains and their variable mortality, public health officials will be monitoring what's going on, and vaccines may be adjusted as needed. So far, all of the SARS-CoV2 mutations have moved it further up the respiratory tract, making it more contagious and less dangerous. I suspect it's unlikely it will revert to a form as dangerous as the original strain. I do not pretend to know that for a fact, however. I can only speak for the current situation. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

Don't even bother debating with him any more.  He's in some fantasy world unto himself pretending everything is hunky dory whilst Rome burns.

All public health officials agree with me, and I'm in the fantasy world? Or am I dealing with a handful of knuckleheads who won't admit they're wrong? Do you want to write to Dr. Fauci and other public health officials to tell them how much more knowledgeable you are than they are, and that they live in a fantasy world? 🤣

[MikeBiDude]

On 5/15/2022 at 3:05 PM, Unicorn said:

All public health officials agree with me, and I'm in the fantasy world? Or am I dealing with a handful of knuckleheads who won't admit they're wrong? Do you want to write to Dr. Fauci and other public health officials to tell them how much more knowledgeable you are than they are, and that they live in a fantasy world? 🤣

Are mask mandates in our LA County being planned in the wake of increasing Covid stats?

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coronavirus/southern-california-coronavirus/covid-hospitalizations-cases-la-county-mask-mandates-coronavirus/2897411/

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

Are mask mandates in our LA County being planned in the wake of increasing Covid stats?...

Pretty unlikely. I think all public health officials now understand that those guidelines about when to recommend masking were drawn when the virus was many times more virulent than it is now. That's why no one is using "cases" as a metric. It's especially problematic since many people are being tested routinely when they don't even have any symptoms. Last night Steve Colbert had Secretary Blinken as a guest (whenever I hear that man's name, it makes me think of Abe Lincoln). They discussed how they and everyone on the set (including band members) have "tested positive." Of those with symptoms, none were serious. They also discussed how Jimmy Kimmel just "tested positive" for the 2nd time in 3 weeks. Again, no symptoms. 

Even the hospitalization data are misleading at this time, since the statistics show anyone admitted who tests positive, not those who are admitted because of the virus. In the past, most people who were admitted and tested positive were there because of virus, but that's no longer the case. Obviously, when the virus is rampant in the community (increased by more than 4-fold in many parts of the country), it's inevitable that there will be more people admitted who test positive. But that's obviously not what's important. It will be very difficult to do, but at some point it seems we need to get statistics on those admitted because of the virus--or stop testing people without respiratory symptoms. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Pretty unlikely. I think all public health officials now understand that those guidelines about when to recommend masking were drawn when the virus was many times more virulent than it is now. That's why no one is using "cases" as a metric. It's especially problematic since many people are being tested routinely when they don't even have any symptoms. Last night Steve Colbert had Secretary Blinken as a guest (whenever I hear that man's name, it makes me think of Abe Lincoln). They discussed how they and everyone on the set (including band members) have "tested positive." Of those with symptoms, none were serious. They also discussed how Jimmy Kimmel just "tested positive" for the 2nd time in 3 weeks. Again, no symptoms. 

Even the hospitalization data are misleading at this time, since the statistics show anyone admitted who tests positive, not those who are admitted because of the virus. In the past, most people who were admitted and tested positive were there because of virus, but that's no longer the case. Obviously, when the virus is rampant in the community (increased by more than 4-fold in many parts of the country), it's inevitable that there will be more people admitted who test positive. But that's obviously not what's important. It will be very difficult to do, but at some point it seems we need to get statistics on those admitted because of the virus--or stop testing people without respiratory symptoms. 

I think we need a real expert, such as Doctor Anthony Fauci and Purplekow

[+ WilliamM]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:11 PM, Unicorn said:

For crying out loud, why are you (and a few others) the only ones who don't get the obvious? The fact that "cases" are through the roof, but hospitalizations are staying very low obviously means that "cases' are no longer an important metric, as no one is getting seriously ill from this disease. Almost everyone in the US by now has probably already contracted the virus, but most don't even know unless they're regularly testing, even if asymptomatic (such as politicians, talk show hosts, etc.). In addition to all of the famous people who've gotten the virus recently, you must know quite a few people who've contracted the virus. Do you know of one SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain, then gotten seriously ill from it (either a friend or a famous person)? I sure don't. Have you heard of a SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain then developed long COVID? Not one single person? Even in the news? What is that telling you? Even your 96 year-old Queen did just fine, and I'd be hard-pressed to think of anyone older or more frail than she is. 

The current percentage of people in the hospital who test positive is now about the same as the percentage of people in the general public who test positive, meaning the reason they're in the hospital has nothing to do with the virus for the most part. People have been going maskless all over the US, including movie theaters, bars, discos, etc., for well over 2 months in all states, well over 3 months in many states. The virus keeps getting shared, but it's obvious that no one is getting seriously sick. I know you think you're so much smarter than Dr. Fauci when he said the pandemic phase is over. But he's actually trained to know such things. Face it: you'll never admit you're wrong no matter how obvious it is to everyone else (rarely do I see anyone masked up in stores, movie theaters, bars, etc.). 

If we had easy tests for other common cold viruses which we're always passing around, and we'd go around testing people without symptoms, we could always find plenty of "cases" to get panicked over (or not). But it's obvious to most people that the time for panic is over at this time. 

Queen Elizabeth is hardly frail. Her mother lived to well over 100.

And the time for panic is hardly over. Have you been in a Starbucks lately?

[+ WilliamM]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:11 PM, Unicorn said:

For crying out loud, why are you (and a few others) the only ones who don't get the obvious? The fact that "cases" are through the roof, but hospitalizations are staying very low obviously means that "cases' are no longer an important metric, as no one is getting seriously ill from this disease. Almost everyone in the US by now has probably already contracted the virus, but most don't even know unless they're regularly testing, even if asymptomatic (such as politicians, talk show hosts, etc.). In addition to all of the famous people who've gotten the virus recently, you must know quite a few people who've contracted the virus. Do you know of one SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain, then gotten seriously ill from it (either a friend or a famous person)? I sure don't. Have you heard of a SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain then developed long COVID? Not one single person? Even in the news? What is that telling you? Even your 96 year-old Queen did just fine, and I'd be hard-pressed to think of anyone older or more frail than she is. 

The current percentage of people in the hospital who test positive is now about the same as the percentage of people in the general public who test positive, meaning the reason they're in the hospital has nothing to do with the virus for the most part. People have been going maskless all over the US, including movie theaters, bars, discos, etc., for well over 2 months in all states, well over 3 months in many states. The virus keeps getting shared, but it's obvious that no one is getting seriously sick. I know you think you're so much smarter than Dr. Fauci when he said the pandemic phase is over. But he's actually trained to know such things. Face it: you'll never admit you're wrong no matter how obvious it is to everyone else (rarely do I see anyone masked up in stores, movie theaters, bars, etc.). 

If we had easy tests for other common cold viruses which we're always passing around, and we'd go around testing people without symptoms, we could always find plenty of "cases" to get panicked over (or not). But it's obvious to most people that the time for panic is over at this time. 

Queen Elizabeth is hardly frail. Her mother lived to well over 100.

And the time for panic is hardly over. Have you been in a Starbucks lately?

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I am voluntarily wearing a mask starting today and through the weekend.  I have a cruise next week, and I don't want to show up to the terminal and be asymptomatic positive and be turned away from the ship.  Yes, I believe masks provide some protection, hence why I will adorn one for the next few days.  I also believe in vaccines, hence I am vaccinated and double boostered, the most recent booster being 3 weeks ago.  I also believe the threat at this point is not much worse than a strong seasonal flu, so hence I'm still traveling.  If cruise lines weren't testing and turning people away at the embarkation port, I would just rely on the vaccine and wouldn't adorn the mask for the weekend.

I'm sure I'll receive a barrage of angry comments from both sides.  Some will say I don't care about others and am not taking things seriously enough, and others will say I'm taking too much precaution and not to worry about it.   My point of sharing is to show there's a middle ground.  And whatever you choose to do, to do it with thought and a purpose and not out of fear.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Vegas_nw1982

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

I am voluntarily wearing a mask starting today and through the weekend.  I have a cruise next...

What you're doing is wise. Of course, I think you realize that you're doing it in order to accommodate outdated policies, not because there's any risk to either yourself or to the other thousands of entirely vaccinated fellow passengers and crew. My other suggestion for you is to carry with you on your trip an empty bottle of nasal rinse, such as NeilMed, and rinse your nasal passages out right before being tested. No sense in ruining a great trip. There are other small risks one takes when going on a cruise, but at this point omicron is definitely not one of them (all passengers and crew must be vaccinated). 

My partner and I came back to the US from Belize in early April, and we rinsed out our nasal passages just before being tested for our return trip. We're also taking a trip around Britain in June, and will take the bottle and saline packets with us in case the US hasn't changed its policies by then (the UK doesn't require such testing, and few countries still do, but there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to change the policies once they're in place in the US). Same for a trip we're planning in August from Iceland to Greenland to Canada to Boston. Again, Iceland, Greenland and Canada have updated their policies, and no longer require testing, but if the US still requires that woefully outdated testing, we'll have our bottles and saline packets ready. 

 

Dark green countries no longer require testing prior to entry:

Edited May 20, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

What you're doing is wise. Of course, I think you realize that you're doing it in order to accommodate outdated policies, not because there's any risk to either yourself or to the other thousands of entirely vaccinated fellow passengers and crew. My other suggestion for you is to carry with you on your trip an empty bottle of nasal rinse, such as NeilMed, and rinse your nasal passages out right before being tested. No sense in ruining a great trip.

Thank you!  That is exactly why I'm doing it.  I will take your suggestion with the nasal rinse!

[MikeBiDude]

13 hours ago, Unicorn said:

but if the US still requires that woefully outdated testing, we'll have our bottles and saline packets ready. 

So you use the nasal saline rinse to avoid a positive Covid test result?

[+ WilliamM]

14 hours ago, Unicorn said:

What you're doing is wise. Of course, I think you realize that you're doing it in order to accommodate outdated policies, not because there's any risk to either yourself or to the other thousands of entirely vaccinated fellow passengers and crew. My other suggestion for you is to carry with you on your trip an empty bottle of nasal rinse, such as NeilMed, and rinse your nasal passages out right before being tested. No sense in ruining a great trip. There are other small risks one takes when going on a cruise, but at this point omicron is definitely not one of them (all passengers and crew must be vaccinated). 

My partner and I came back to the US from Belize in early April, and we rinsed out our nasal 

 

What happened to your last partner, forgot the name and country of origin.

[mike carey]

13 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

What happened to your last partner, forgot the name and country of origin.

The lyin' Paraguayan? How could you forget?

[MikeBiDude]

LA County move from low to medium Covid risk level.

Stats on the increase here. Decision based on CDC parameters.