BillyBoy Again!

[Guest Skeptic]

Boston Guy, I salute you for your very reasonable and well-reasoned comments. And I can't say that I disagree with much of what you've said.

 

Yes, I hire escorts all the time, and have for over thirty years, starting in the days when I was a lovely young thing myself, right through last weekend, when I could hardly be described as either. They have been, with very rare exception, guys who think of themselves as straight, and, for all intents and purposes, are. Many are married or living with girlfriends. Five or six have been regular playmates for a decade, and even more; and with these I can honestly claim to have a friendship (however compartmentalized) that is based on the enjoyment of each other's company and genuine mutual regard. And while I suspect that these guys would 'do it' without being paid, it's something I prefer not to put to the test. (Longwinded though I am, I won't go into any deep analysis of that now, trusting that there are enough of you out there who know exactly what I mean.)

 

So it's not that I don't believe that a kind of friendship & respect can exist between two people whose sexual encounters are based on money. Clearly it can. But when it's genuine, it's almost always the result of years and years of such encounters - not the four or five repeats that many here mistake for something more meaningful than it really is. Remember, too, that unlike most of the guys I see (straights, whose homosexual contacts are extremely limited), the vast majority of escorts talked about here are gay guys who are not being asked to step outside their natural orientation, but rather to get it on with other gay guys they wouldn't dream of having sex with (or even knowing) absent the money. I know, I know: there are exceptions, but the critical distinction I make is valid nonetheless; for paradoxically, the 'species difference' is much more conducive in the long run to mutual regard and friendship than a gay escort/gay client setup - at least as I far as I have observed with others.

 

I have also had love affairs - two of them extended and companionate relationships - and with guys who are still among my closest friends.

 

I say all this so that no one will dismiss my negative comments as the musings of an embittered, unfulfilled old queen. Well, I may feel unfulfilled from time to time nowadays, when the kind of guy I'm looking for has all but vanished, in understandable terror, from the scene. (See my posting about 'trade.') But I have no cause whatever to be bitter, and I'm not. Indeed, I've had some of the most thrilling sex imaginable, and with some of the most desirable men on the planet.

 

Now, to answer Boston Guy's other questions. I visit this site because I want to know all about what's happening (and available) on the escort scene, and because I enjoy reading what many posters have to say - in other words, because there's plenty of information here and a good deal of entertainment, too. That's also why I read the logbook at Ace Bannon's site.

 

No, I don't want twinks to be banished (or even belittled), and I'm happy for anyone who's out there peddling successfully & keeping customers happy. I DO have an aversion to Aaron Lawrence (hardly a unique reaction), not because he's 'successful' (who really knows?), but because of the unending & smarmy self-promotion. Ditto for Billyboy, even though the main vehicle of his self-promotion, disguised as a winsome letter to the world he penned on February 4 under the title 'Clarification,' is longer available as evidence in the Archive (Daddy, are you listening?), where clicking on it now brings up a thread about 'Strip Clubs in Long Island'. And, oh, the wonderful postings that little missive generated!

 

However, I DON'T agree that the site (whose main, perhaps sole, value is what posters contribute) is well run by Hooboy. Think of all the message board disasters. And, as has been pointed out many times and by others, the whole site is needlessly complicated, fragmented, fussy & redundant. And it's tiresome to keep running into Hooboy's self-dramatizing sighs of selfless exhaustion (Daddy has just joined him in this), the 'histrionic' overlay so well described in the 'Hooboy Savaged' thread.

 

Why do I needle him? Because I think he's got it coming. Just as no one forces me to visit this site, nothing forced him to set it up, and nothing forces him to maintain it (and at such cost!) EXCEPT an ego and sense of self-importance even greater than Aaron Lawrence's & Billboy's combined. Some disgruntled post office workers shoot the place up; others, it seems, start a website.

 

And, BG, it's not quite true that bitching at him is pointless. He has already reversed course on several things that came under attack (the silliness about posting/not posting fees is one example), and even Jimbo (the poster quoted in 'Hooboy Savged') seems to have shamed him into changing the lead-in to the Viagra ad.

 

But, of course, in the end, you're right. He'll keep on being Hooboy. And I'll keep on doing just as I please, too. Those who wish will simply avoid my posts (as I'm sure many already do). Avoiding Hooboy on Hooboy's site (and especially his editorial control of the reviews)is practically impossible. But the non-Hooboy part of coming here is still worthwhile.

[Guest Monopolizer]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-00 AT 11:02PM (CST)[p]Actually, Skeptic, I did see that there was a posting for Billy Boy, and I noticed it being yanked, but I didn’t really care if Hooboy posted it in violation of his own stated policy. Maybe he made an error. Why attribute what happened to Hooboy's evil agenda of promotion of himself and twinky escorts?

 

I really don’t get the impression that Hooboy is overly self-promoting or favors the twinks. He certainly has the right to do anything he wants to with his website and if people don’t like it they don’t have to visit. It seems that he is reasonably open to suggestions from people who use the site. I for one am very happy that I discovered this site and have benefited very nicely from the information. A mistake here or there is far outweighed by the site’s benefits.

 

What I do notice is that every jaundiced point you make is tainted with extreme prejudice and hatred and I have to wonder why it is that you feel the way you do. I must admit I am fascinated when you do this, but I do find it extremely unfair, pathological, bitchy and one-sided.

[HooBoy]

Billy's review went up by accident because of the travel addition. It was up for no more than three hours. As soon as I saw what happened, it was deleted.

 

I apologize for any inconvenience it may have caused you.

 

We are working diligently to get the software bugs out of the Message Center and I'm flogging myself daily for my own imperfections.

 

As has been pointed out by someone here, I have made changes to the site because of the comments I've received and will continue to mold this site according to the valuable feedback I get.

 

I do appreciate your contributions, even if they are not fawning.

 

--HooBoy

[Guest Skeptic]

Forget about that 10-day delay between postings in the new reviews section - at least if you're a simpering twink with Hooboy's seal of approval!

(And NYObserver is your second biggest cheerleader...)

 

After being treated to a baker's dozen of valentines to the Mary Pickford of Escorts on March 18, here we are, THREE days later, with the same batch of raves, including one from some benighted creature who actually paid $900 for an overnighter with this sex-moppet! (Gee, at those rates, it seems rather chintzy not to have peeled off another $100 as a tip, and bring Billy's take up to a cool thou. But that might have riled rival moppet, Aaron Lawrence...)

 

It's this sort of promotional zeal (including the headline about BillyBoy's upcoming Vegas stint) that inspired the 'Hooboy Savaged' thread on page 2 of these postings. If you haven't read it yet, maybe you ought to do it now - before Daddy finally does his overhaul of the message center and accidently deletes it.

[Guest Monopolizer]

Septic Cretin Barnyard Bitch

 

Skeptic,

 

Don't you have anything better to do than to lie in wait for the chance to unleash your venomous bile? I think you need to get fucked, real hard, and maybe slapped around a little bit; perhaps then you wouldn't be such a ranting, rancorous and resounding bitch.

[Guest Jake]

First of all, there is no review associated with Billy's posting today. It's simply an alert to his travel plans, the same kind of thing HooBoy affords any of the escorts without holding to the 10-day rule. If you read regularly, you will note that whenever a new pic arrives, travel plans are finalized and replies to reviews are made they are posted without regard to the 10 days.

 

Secondly, don't you have any regard for the feelings of others? I am many things, but I am not cruel. There are quite a few escorts on this site that don't appeal to me in the looks department (Billy certainly is not one of them) - and never once have I felt the need to put them down, especially under the veil of anonymity that this site affords us. Billy seems to appeal to quite a few people and apparently earns his living as an escort. I say more power to him. Who knows, maybe someday I'll make it to Chicago and add to the many rave reviews. But one thing I do know is that I won't find the need to make myself look good with snide comments about people I don't know. I like myself too much for that, and I love my gay brothers!

[Guest lovemblond]

I really don't want to get involved in all this. A total waste of time. But to clarify one point. There was a review of Billyboy posted today. It was removed from the 3/21 list this morning.

[Guest Midnight Cowboy]

RE: Septic Cretin Barnyard Bitch

 

>I think you need to

>get fucked, real hard, and

>maybe slapped around a little

>bit;

 

Hey - no fair! Why should Skeptic get all the fun??

 

Michael

[Guest Skeptic]

Thanks, Lovemblond, for setting the record straight. And I hope Monopolizer (who seems to have studied alliteration under Spiro Agnew) will note that there was indeed a fresh outbreak of Billy on this morning's review roster - but that it was yanked by noon. He was lucky enough to miss it, I suppose.

 

I wish that gentle Jake (whom I do respect)would understand that my snide comments aren't meant to make me look good, but to make Hooboy look bad - i.e. to show that far from being the benign, impartial purveyor of info he claims he is, he's more often a silly, manipulative, self-dramatizing queen bee with very odd notions of truth and objectivity. I'm sure I'm not the only one following this site who thinks so; but I guess I'm one of the few to say it.

 

And if I attack the likes of BillyBoy and Aaron Lawrence, it's not because they're twinks (and therefore of zero erotic interest to me), but because they share Hooboy's agenda of relentless self-promotion, despite the aura of sincere sweetness & light they work so hard to create.

 

There's nothing wrong with twinks and/or their admirers. But when they con themselves and others into thinking that an otherwise unobjectionble sex-for-money exchange is somehow a display of friendship & mutual regard just because it includes lots of 'cuddling & kissing,' they are as phony and off-base as those hearts (hearts!!!)that Hooboy has sprinkled across page one of this site.

 

And that's when I speak up.

[Boston Guy]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-21-00 AT 08:22PM (CST)[p]Yes -- but why?

 

What is your point? What is your goal?

 

Would you like HB to shut down the site? Would you like to ban all mention of "twinks?" Would you like all escorts who market themselves -- especially the ones who seem to do it successfully -- to be banned?

 

Or perhaps you would like us all to finally agree that any interaction with an escort must in the end be devoid of any real emotion?

 

I find myself wondering why you follow this site. Do you hire escorts? If not, why is this of interest to you? And if yes, why do you do that? Is it possibly because you derive some kind of satisfaction from it? Some kind of emotional response that is pleasing enough to you to cause you to want to do it again?

 

I wonder why you believe so strongly that interactions between clients and escorts cannot possibly include "displays of friendship & mutual regard?" Is it because you have never experienced this? Or because you believe it can't be?

 

I can assure you that many clients and escorts -- especially the ones who meet on a regular basis -- have a relationship that in truth contains elements of both regard and friendship. Certainly this is not always true; sadly, many of our fellow men are not always deserving of regard and friendship and escorting/hiring an escort can bring out strange emotions and actions on both sides.

 

But there are many genuinely nice guys who escort either part-time or full-time and many genuinely nice guys who hire escorts, for a whole grab-bag full of reasons. And when these people interact, they honestly bring warmth and regard for the other person -- as a person -- to the relationship. And yes, at times, a friendship will develop.

 

Many times this friendship has clearly defined boundaries. But that's ok and it doesn't mean that it's false: we all have many kinds of relationships and they don't all have to be deep and abiding to still have meaning. If we were each to take out of our lives all of those people who make up the fabric of our lives and with whom we are friendly but who are not "good friends", our lives would be very empty places.

 

So, again, I wonder why you feel the need to make the points you continue to try to make? So what if HB is a queen bee (I'm not agreeing on this point)? What does it matter? The site is run well - isn't that what counts? Would it matter if he was Aunt Bea? So what if throws some hearts across the front page? Who cares? Why does it offend you so? And why do you think it's important?

 

And, finally, if HB and this place upset you so much, instead of scrutinizing it to try to find yet another instance where HB breaks his own rules why not just leave? Why put yourself through this? Who are you trying to convert? And what are you hoping to accomplish?

[Guest Shooter]

He's baaack! YES!!!! :-)

[Guest leandream1]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-00 AT 01:24PM (CST)[p]Skeptic,

 

I find your history fascinating and thank you for sharing it. The pursuit of men living the illusion of straight, men with girlfriends and wives, is intensely interesting to me. It's too easy to tie it to some internalized homophobia on your part, because there are too many very well-adjusted gay men like yourself who feel the same way. So, why???

 

Of course you know that the men you have been hiring are not straight, not really. Straight men do not have sex with other men. Just because an industry has a label for them, "trade" or "gay for pay", doesn't make it an actual phenomenon. They were curious, you offered them money, they accepted and explored. They are like adult pubescents experimenting with the glee-club kid in the woods.

 

Your then nearly-stellar appearance was perhaps less appealing to them than was the opportuinity to indulge curiosities and get cash to boot; after all if they really are straight, they shouldn't be overly concerned nor excited about your appearance. And you have to know that many of these men are as experienced as you, and just playing an angle; more than you think, but certainly not all. Nevertheless, there's no denying that they all utilized you in much the same way you claim we non-trade escorts use our gay clients...for enough money, you can get exclusively gay and less-than-exclusively-straight men to do all sorts of things. Nothing new there.

 

How do you know if a guy is gay? Because his dick tastes like shit. Sorry, old joke. But nobody leave the wife and kids yet because for many people "gay" or "straight" is too narrow, and bisexual to ambiguous. Kinsey's studies of the 1940s are still rock solid. "Brian Orser" gay rates a kinsey 6, and the men Skeptic hires would be a kinsey 2 or 3.

 

What the hell do these numbers mean? It's actually a really tight study. Approach sexuality from 4 categories:

 

1. behavior: what you are doing and who you are doing it with

2. self-identification: how you identify yourself

3. attraction: those you are attracted to.

4. fantasy: those you fantasize about

 

then apply these on a 1-6 scale where 1 is exclusively opposite sex, and 6 is exclusively same sex. example: do you have sexual (1. behavior) relations only with opposite sex, only with same sex, mostly with opposite sex, mostly with same sex? Do you find yourself attracted (3. attraction) to the opposite sex exclusively, same sex a little bit? Etc. Average your scores on a variety of questions and that's your kinsey rating. I am about a five. In the last several years all my sex has been with men, I identify (2. self-identification) as male-to-male kinda guy, I am mostly attracted to men but there are a few women, especially some rock climbing friends of mine, that I find myself attracted to and wouldn't mine re-visiting sexually.

 

Skeptic, your Trade men don't have sex exclusively with women, so that already jeoporadizes their kinsey one status. Additionally, I am willing to bet that they may actually fantasize (4. fantasize) about that spectacular blow job you gave them while later masturbating or receiving a less than stellar hummer from a woman! Of course attraction and self-identification may hold solid at number one.

 

My point: they aren't straight, because as soon as you have 'em they are no longer (completely) a kinsey one! It's a cruel double edged sword. My advice is to swallow it.

 

What I find intriguing is the "straight attraction"; it seems as unnaturual to me as a straight man looking for a gay guy-a biological paradox added to the already perplexing biological question of how "gay" persists. Skeptic, you are a study, and as a scientist please understand that I can pay you no higher compliment (but if you continue to lump us all as twinks I will break your arms). All my best. -Hagen

[Guest Jake]

OMG, I'm shocked to hear Brian Orser is a 6! That's coming from a 5.

[Guest Shooter]

Rocket scientist!

 

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-00 AT 09:35PM (CST)[p]With a brain like that, are you sure you should give up being an engineer? :-) Boy, you'd get off easy with me. Just talk philosophy for a couple hours.

 

Not that anyone saw the rest of that but, once in a while, my levity cracks me up! Then, I hit the 'edit' mode.

[Guest motheropearl]

Anyone who knows Billy knows that he is NOT arrogant. He is exactly the opposite. As for self promotion, all escorts self promote...unless they get a manager DUH!!!!!!!

 

promoting oneself...putting ads in magazines, maybe even building a website, or advertising in any form... What a scam!!! NO ONE should self promote......RIGHT! the whole business economy would shut down. GET A LIFE.

[Guest Diogenes]

Stealth Promotion

 

Mother dear, the complaint wasn't about promoting per se. (Of course escorts have to trot their wares out for inspection--somewhat--to do business in the first place, and clients want them to.) It's about 'stealth promotion'--i.e.

pretending to join in a discussion, posting a 'helpful' comment, etc., when in fact the message is 'Hire me! I'm great!'

 

Several working boys practice this dodge here, but I'll leave their names out of it for the moment. It's an artform pioneered by the tireless Aaron Lawrence, at least until January or so (when savage attacks on him reached frightening levels), but he seems largely to have retreated to his advice column for now.

 

However, early in February, Billyboy (the Windy City's answer to AL), after a draught of attention (not even a gratuitous plug from Hooboy--who had YET to meet him at that point), decided to play the Lawrence game with a long, wistful 'open letter' to the world. This began an extraordinary thread called 'Clarification' which is among the strangely lost items in the Archives. Perhaps you missed it.

 

While purporting to be the story of Billyboy's own very disappointing encounter with another Chicago escort (who basically treated him with efficient indifference), it was in fact a self-endorsement of his own 'sincere,' compassionate behavior--complete with an apology (that would even make the Pope wince) to all those clients he might inadvertantly offended in the past.

 

Among those who made derisive comments about this shameless promo was Billy's ex, himself an escort, who did a brilliant, devastating, and all-too-credible deconstruction of Billy's cunning text, showing him, phrase by phrase, to be as humble and unassuming as Uriah Heep.

 

Then, true to form, the ever-impartial Hooboy jumped right in, obliquely characterizing Billy's ex as an embittered, rejected lover--claiming to know them both (from a few emails and maybe a phonecall or two!)--and did all he could to salvage Billyboy's luminous reputation as the Mother Teresa of Twinks.

 

I think that if you'd read this & all the surrounding discussion (fascinating stuff, a lot of it), you wouldn't have been confused about what's being complained about in this thread. But perhaps you DID read it, judging from your email to Hooboy yesterday, protesting all the drubbing poor Billy has been getting: after all, the current remarks are nothing compared to the postings under 'Clarification'.

[NY Observer]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

I guess I am just naive. I believe what Billy wrote and don't feel it was manipulative.

 

FYI, Billy's ex is not an escort.

[Guest motheropearl]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

Number one, I did not email hooboy.

Number two, NYObserver is right. His ex is not an escort.

 

Finally, I have seen Billy several times a month regularly for over 5 months now. I know him.

 

His "clarification" was true and not bullshit. He even explained the whole thing to me shortly after it actually happened. I can assure you, what he said was what he meant and there was no hidden agenda.

 

But if you sceptics choose to continue to believe so, then please by all means do. Billy's calendar is full for the next couple months with "believers" and people who really know him. I don't need people like you septics cluttering up his schedule and making it difficult to get in. Believe what you want. I know Billy, he the only escort I hire in Chicago, and he has become my friend, as he does with many clients. You guys keep getting the bad or mediocre ones and keep them for yourselves. Us "non-skeptics" will hold on to our gems and jewels.

[Guest Jake]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-00 AT 10:05AM (CST)[p]Jesus Christ,Diogenes, you are more boring than the effing black party. I'd say you are too much in love with yourself and your ability to compose a sentence. I read the whole BB diatribe as it occurred and must have Attention Deficit Disorder, because I could swear that 90% of what you just said didn't appear in the threads I read. Billy Boy is looking more and more like he'd be worth a trip to Chicago.

[Guest Diogenes]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

To avoid composing any more sentences than needed (and thus the risk of even greater narcissistic indulgence), I'll try to answer NYO, Mother & Jake in this one posting.

 

Yes, NYO, you may be naive (judging from some of the stuff in your Gaiety reviews), but you certainly are entitled to believe whatever Billy writes or says.

 

To Mother I apologize for confusing his ironic remark about twinks vs muscleboys in a nearby thread with PJR's defence of Billy in Hooboy's 2/24 email. (I must have read them in quick succession this morning.) So please continue to cherish your jewels and gems (including your own mother-of-pearl exterior) without fear of being tarnished by anything I might say.

 

Jake, were YOU taking your ritalin last month? Everything I said about the 'Clarification' postings was there (including the assertion--from Hooboy himself--that Billy's ex was an escort), and if Daddy ever awakes from his beauty slumber and restores the archive, you can read it (again) for yourself.

 

How hearing an escort made fun of makes him more erotically appealing is probably a twink-lover thing. Having little hope of understanding it, all I can do is wish you a pleasant trip to Chicago.

[Guest Jake]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-00 AT 11:48AM (CST)[p]Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. Pathetic! And by the way, I must have missed my ritalin again this morning, because I've posted to NYO and obviously this is meant for that twit Diogenes

[Guest Skeptic]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

Hey Jake, you may need more medication than ritalin. You just posted to NYO AGAIN! (Or is this just Hooboy's attempt to keep like minds grouped together?)

 

BTW, after hearing you call D's post as boring as the effing black party, I wonder if you're the same Jake who seemed rarin' to get there yesterday?

[HooBoy]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

Sir:

 

I NEVER said or even hinted that Billy's ex is, was or has ever been an escort.

 

As far as I am concerned the fact you publish one lie negates every thing you have to offer and your credibility is on the level of the Weekly World News.

 

Thank you for writing. But next time, get your facts right before you regurgitate your spittle.

 

HooBoy

[Guest Diogenes]

RE: Stealth Promotion

 

Madam:

 

You may actually be right that you never claimed or even hinted Billy's ex was an escort--and of course we'll never really know that unless the thread is finally restored to the so-called archive by the Ministry of Truth. (Don't hold your breath, folks.)

 

But that was hardly the real thrust of your little intervention anyway. (Who would care if the ex was an escort or a john or merely an innocent bystander?) What you were REALLY anxious to get out front was the impression that his remarks couldn't possibly be valid because he'd been spurned (sez you) by Billyboy. And to mask your obvious bias in B's favor you threw in some patronizing words of sympathy for the poor, suffering ex--implying that you knew both sides of the story because you knew both parties involved (when, in fact, you'd never met either).

 

How very like you, Hooboy, to duck behind a peripheral detail of the discussion in hopes of evading the well-aimed barb. (Well, pretty well aimed.) And how laughable to try to apply the 'false in one, false in all' principle of courtroom testimony to what I've said above. Not being able to remember whether you tried to discredit BillyBoy's ex by saying he was a business rival or just plain embittered is hardly a "lie"--especially since the transcript isn't available to consult anymore--and it certainly can't obviate any other part of what I had to say about the whole affair.

 

And I think you'd be wise to drop that 'false in one' bit right away. After all, you might someday find yourself on the stand being cross-examined about your ties to Vernal, Utah. Would you want a simple yes or no answer to demolish your proud claims of impartiality and truth?

 

(By the way, spittle doesn't need to be 'regurgitated': it's produced entirely in the mouth.)

[HooBoy]

RE: Stealth User ID's

 

For a person who has to not only hide under the cloak of anonymity, but who also has the audacity to post here under the names Intosize, hed4str8, Diogenes and Skeptic, your dishonesty precedes you.

 

(Yes, folks, it's all one and the same person. I can only imagine with the potential of 7 AOL identities, how many more of this schizophrenic there really are.)

 

It would be fun to be in a room with all of you. I wonder if you hate each of your personalities as much as you do people whom you've never met.

 

HooBoy