Are you "gay"? Are you "queer"? What the hell are you?!

[TonyDown]

10 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

Would you say you are gay AND queer? Honest question, no snark here.

Yes! But that sort of goes without saying based on my post, right?

[TonyDown]

10 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's sad after so many years of bigotry to start calling gay people "strange" or "weird' now that we've demonstrated its perfectly normal. If you want to call a hairy dude in a pair of heels and a frock, queer...then I could get on board. That's always gonna be weird. But there are plenty of gay and bisexual peope who lead perfectly normal lives. So why refer to them under an umbrella of weirdness ?

Good point.  It's perfectly fine to be gay. 

Is it necessary to chime in with "by the way, I'm gay" or "I'm queer" at every gathering?

Perhaps when announcing it to strangers or extremely casual acquaintances, would it be weird.

Your choice though. You do you.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by TonyDown

[+ José Soplanucas]

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 hours ago, TonyDown said:

Yes! But that sort of goes without saying based on my post, right?

Absolutely yes.

You are new in these forums and I had not noticed you before. My apologies, I had to double check. You are probably learning that not everyone here follows the rules of logics. 

[+ nycman]

[mike carey]

5 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

"Queer" means freak.

It always has. It always will.

You can chose to be Humpty Dumpty and say that it means what you chose it to mean — neither more nor less, but that doesn't make it so. A brief perusal of a dictionary will reveal that the basic meanings of the word queer are odd, strange, weird, eccentric or unconventional All of these connote difference from the norm, but at a far less contemptuous register than freak. A case can of course be made that freak is an extension of its meaning, but not that it is the only or original meaning.

Most words gain and lose meanings over time and some end up meaning something completely different. Queer still carries the meanings it had when it entered English usage but it has been used about homosexuality for over a century (and in doing so retains the basic idea of difference from the norm).

The history of the word 'queer', News, La Trobe University

WWW.LATROBE.EDU.AU

---

Reviled, reclaimed and respected: the history of the word ‘queer’

 

[pubic_assistance]

7 hours ago, mike carey said:

You can chose to be Humpty Dumpty and say that it means what you chose it to mean — neither more nor less, but that doesn't make it so.

Willful ignorance of the  perjorative street-slang use of "Queer" doesn't make it different from what we all know about how it's used.

Same way "gay" is often used by millennials to mean "fucked-up". You're not going to find that street-slang in Webster's. Doesn't make it not exist as a commonly used and broadly understood use of the word.

Calling someone "Queer".has always meant they are a freak. Just because some marginalized gays decided to "adopt it" doesn't make it mean something different to people who sling it around as an insult.

How sad to allow an insult to define you.

Edited November 4, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[+ José Soplanucas]

@mike carey, there is no nail

😇

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:49 AM, Tygerscent said:

I consider myself “sexual” and have no other labels~ I was raised on the idea that people are sexual regardless of gender or preference~ So, there wasn’t a strong push to identify as male, female, straight, bi, gay etc., and as a result, I just identity as sexual~
 my preferences whether gender or sexual are not the focal point of my identity. 

I love this!

Even though the vast majority of humans are sexual, it's queer that the groups who openly talk about it the most are considered the outcast.

This definition, however, doesn't work for asexual people who claim to be not sexual at all and therefore neither heterosexual or homosexual.

[+ APPLE1]

I generally use the term gay to describe myself. However, if someone refers to me by any other "gay" descriptor, without malice, I am pretty indifferent. Others have alluded to this, and I think that malice is a key factor. After all, whether someone stands on the street with a sign that says "homosexuals should die," or "queers should die," neither fills my heart with warm fuzzies. And, likewise, neither is more palatable than the other.  

I also have a few gay friends who make specific word choices to describe specific subsets of people. If one of them said "my friends are joining us for dinner. John is gay, Bob is queer, and David is a f-g-t," I'd likely know who was who based solely on the demeanor my friends associate with the gay descriptors.

[Brak]

On 11/4/2023 at 7:01 AM, pubic_assistance said:

Willful ignorance of the  perjorative street-slang use of "Queer" doesn't make it different from what we all know about how it's used.

Same way "gay" is often used by millennials to mean "fucked-up". You're not going to find that street-slang in Webster's. Doesn't make it not exist as a commonly used and broadly understood use of the word.

Calling someone "Queer".has always meant they are a freak. Just because some marginalized gays decided to "adopt it" doesn't make it mean something different to people who sling it around as an insult.

How sad to allow an insult to define you.

It's weird to me that you bring up "gay" being used as an insult here and don't realize it's hurting your argument. "Gay" is both used as an insult and as a self-identification. "Queer" is both used as an insult and as a self-identification. Lots of words can be used both as an insult and as a source of pride. Or used in a spirit of defiance in the face of oppression. I have personally had the word "gay" used more to insult me than "queer," does that mean I'm allowing myself to be defined by an insult when I call myself gay? No one is being willfully ignorant of the fact that queer can be and is used as an insult. You're the one being willfully ignorant of the fact that many people are well aware of that fact and still make the well-educated decision to use that term for themselves.

Edited June 8 by Brak
adding context

[Brak]

Similarly, the word "homosexual" is by definition a clinical term and an accurate descriptor of who I am. But 90% of the time when I hear that word outside of the clinical setting, it is being used as a pejorative by people who hate me. Words don't literally only mean what the dictionary says they do, especially when it comes to how minority communities use those words (generally they're not the ones who get to decide the definitions).

Edited June 8 by Brak
adding explanation

[Danny-Darko]

11 minutes ago, Brak said:

It's weird to me that you bring up "gay" being used as an insult here and don't realize it's hurting your argument. "Gay" is both used as an insult and as a self-identification. "Queer" is both used as an insult and as a self-identification. Lots of words can be used both as an insult and as a source of pride. Or used in a spirit of defiance in the face of oppression. I have personally had the word "gay" used more to insult me than "queer," does that mean I'm allowing myself to be defined by an insult when I call myself gay? No one is being willfully ignorant of the fact that queer can be and is used as an insult. You're the one being willfully ignorant of the fact that many people are well aware of that fact and still make the well-educated decision to use that term for themselves.

Just like the "n" word is used as an insult and as a self-identification? 🙄 

Edited June 8 by Danny-Darko

[Brak]

Just now, Danny-Darko said:

Justy like the "n" word is used as an insult and as a self-identification? 🙄 

Never said it was. The Black community has generally come to a different decision about it than the queer community has. Doesn't mean my decision is any less valid.

[Danny-Darko]

2 minutes ago, Brak said:

Never said it was. The Black community has generally come to a different decision about it than the queer community has. Doesn't mean my decision is any less valid.

That "queer community" doesn't speak for all! Once again, another example of the "Alphabet Mafia" claiming it's right to dictate to all of those it claims "to include"! 

[Brak]

It's hard to take you seriously when you use terms like alphabet mafia. Do you use the term feminazi too?

[Danny-Darko]

8 minutes ago, Brak said:

It's hard to take you seriously when you use terms like alphabet mafia. Do you use the term feminazi too?

Yeah, yeah. You're trying to dictate to us what we should believe and think about your choice of words and how they should be used and interpreted? 🙄 "Feminazi", so would the queer version "Queernazi"??

[+ APPLE1]

I'm not sure there is much a purpose analyzing one dictionary definition vs another, or the history and root of a particular gay descriptor. Let's call a spade a spade - we all know what they mean. The real difference is the connotations associated with the specific words, and connotations are important. Hell if they weren't, it's likely a thesaurus wouldn't exist.

I think connotations grow their roots both in society's culture, and our individual history and experiences. I also think they change their direction through both of those things.

In terms of the first, society's culture, certain words have a history of being considered low brow, or impolite, and know one used to speak them in "polite" society. Like myself, I am sure some of you may remember when it was considered, by many, inappropriate to talk about cancer. In a highly progressive crowd, you MAY have been able to openly use the words "cancer" or "breast cancer." But, come hell or high water, you deffinetly wouldn't have said "uterine" or "ovarian" or "cancer" in the same sentence. Saying them in "mixed" company would have earned you a one way ticket to hell for sure!

Then, as more people spoke those words freely, it became completely natural and acceptable behavior. It was a trend likely precipitad by younger folks and people fed up with the stigma. When we can freely use stigmatized words to apply to ourselves and others without malice, it pushes those words into a commonplace arena for usage, and it decreases some of the stigma.

In terms of the second, our individual history and experiences, there are certainly words that cut deep when we hear them. I am not advocating for anyone to ignore or dismiss our own or another's history, and I am certainly not saying anyone has to fully embrace or use any word they find painful. But, if there are words WE saw used to degrade or bully every single kid like us when we were growing up, and a few generations later, if there are kids who saw only 75%, or 50%, or 25% of their peers bullied with those words, that generation may likely be in a different mindset. If that mindset allows them to use those words freely or proudly, even when others use them as a pejorative, isn't that at a small victory for us all?

[Monarchy79]

I don’t subscribe to descriptions.

Sexual orientation is nothing that I have to explain or identify. To break this down further, I don’t explain anything to anyone about myself, and it’s made my life much simpler, actually. 

At the end of the day, 

I am ME. 

 

 

[Monarchy79]

Please forgive me, but every time I think of someone who identifies themselves as “queer”, the archetype that has appeared in my mind (and in reality) is comprised of this:

1.) non-binary

2.) late millennial or Gen Z

3.) blue, purple, pink, yellow, or rainbow colored hair ( in a bad haircut), and chipped colorful nail polish to match. 

4.) bad build. (per “body positivity”) 

5.) quirky glasses and an outfit that has no consistency in style or effort…. 

And is annoying as hell, and has the most ridiculously ass-backwards ideologies on life. 

 

Edited June 8 by Monarchy79

[+ José Soplanucas]

1 hour ago, Monarchy79 said:

Please forgive me, but every time I think of someone who identifies themselves as “queer”, the archetype that has appeared in my mind (and in reality) is comprised of this:

1.) non-binary

2.) late millennial or Gen Z

3.) blue, purple, pink, yellow, or rainbow colored hair ( in a bad haircut), and chipped colorful nail polish to match. 

4.) bad build. (per “body positivity”) 

5.) quirky glasses and an outfit that has no consistency in style or effort…. 

And is annoying as hell, and has the most ridiculously ass-backwards ideologies on life. 

 

LOL. And you think that you are speaking of them.

[Monarchy79]

6 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

LOL. And you think that you are speaking of them.

Not at all. I can’t speak for them, nor do I want to. 
 

[Becket]

Words change with usage and time of course. Gay was "happy." Queer was "unusual or odd." They were perfectly fine words used all the time. So, using the old definitions, I am both gay and queer. I also sleep with men. 

[Manhattan]

I don't think we should tell anyone what words to use or what thoughts to think. 

I have the right to love, fuck, and marry my partner and others have the right to judge, hate, and insult me. 

Freedom is for everyone, but it's not easy or polite. 

 

[+ APPLE1]

4 hours ago, Monarchy79 said:

Please forgive me, but every time I think of someone who identifies themselves as “queer”, the archetype that has appeared in my mind (and in reality) is comprised of this:

1.) non-binary

2.) late millennial or Gen Z

3.) blue, purple, pink, yellow, or rainbow colored hair ( in a bad haircut), and chipped colorful nail polish to match. 

4.) bad build. (per “body positivity”) 

5.) quirky glasses and an outfit that has no consistency in style or effort…. 

And is annoying as hell, and has the most ridiculously ass-backwards ideologies on life. 

 

I completely understand archetypes based on observations. However, I don't think personal oservations shouldn't limit or prohibit possibilities, expansion, or change. To maintain that words are limitted to specific archetypes, is akin to denying that English is a living language.

As someone who has experienced rigid, stoic, stigmatized words that applied to myself, I strive to try accept changes in descriptors so others have a better experience as they go forward. I will echo what @Manhattan said about it not being easy, and I will admit to some mistakes and failure on that front.

I strive not to be my grandparents, who limited gay to mean men who were feminine, soft, sissies, and who walked around behind closed doors in bras and panties. Or my parents who defined trick as the guy a prostitute took home.

Edited June 9 by APPLE1