Mandatory Gratutity - Am I being unreasonable?

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:22 PM, topunderachiever said:

Hardly anyone carries cash these days, except maybe... clowns.  😜

Actually a lot of restaurants these days are charging more if you pay by credit card.....
Why would anyone pay a credit card surcharge?
Always carry cash, and TIP your server in cash.
Caveat Emptor!

BTC

[+ Pensant]

14 hours ago, KrisParr said:

Several choices for a tip appeared and I asked the cute young man if he received the tip or was it split among other servers

Cute boys always get a big tip from me. Especially if they’re flirty. There’s an Italian market around the corner. After 4, a very cute blond works the register. When I complimented him on his blue eyes, he blushed. Now he always chats with me. I’m incorrigible!

[+ Pensant]

1 hour ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Actually a lot of restaurants these days are charging more if you pay by credit card.....
Why would anyone pay a credit card surcharge?
Always carry cash, and TIP your server in cash.
Caveat Emptor!

BTC

I’m noticing more indie coffee places are not accepting cash anymore. I occasionally throw a 20 in my running shorts and stop by afterwards for an iced latte. I was dismayed that they now only accept plastic.

[+ Pensant]

The other issue is the ubiquity of Square pads in small businesses. They make more on the interchange fee with bigger receipts. They try to shame customers into adding a tip. I will never tip when I’m at a bakery or cookie shop and they’re simply handing me something. 

[+ JamesB]

2 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Actually a lot of restaurants these days are charging more if you pay by credit card.....
Why would anyone pay a credit card surcharge?
Always carry cash, and TIP your server in cash.
Caveat Emptor!

BTC

A local Italian restaurant I used to frequent began charging a 4% fee for credit card transactions. Since I typically carry very little cash and don't like the inconvenience of having to use cash to pay a restaurant bill, I decided to stop going there. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who felt this way, as I learned that a few months later, they stopped charging the fee.

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

A local Italian restaurant I used to frequent began charging a 4% fee for credit card transactions. Since I typically carry very little cash and don't like the inconvenience of having to use cash to pay a restaurant bill, I decided to stop going there. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who felt this way, as I learned that a few months later, they stopped charging the fee.

It is my understanding that banks and card providers (visa/mastercard) prohibit charging a fee for card use. At least that was the case when I was in banking. A merchant can be fined and the bank can stop offering you banking services if you do it. 

If I recall correctly, New York state law allows for a cash discount, but the price on the menu is what you need to use for cards. Maybe @rvwnsd can comment - he is more knowledgeable about banking than I am.

[Hot4latin]

As much as merchants loathe paying fees for credit card processing, there’s also an expense associated with cash handling (drawer counts, bank visits, etc). It seems very short-sighted to pass these fees along to customers. 

[Rudynate]

On 5/27/2024 at 7:46 AM, DynamicUno said:

I went to a brunch place near my house this weekend that I hadn't been to in a while.  It's a local chain, a normal table-service type place with a brunch type menu priced a bit upmarket for my area.  I was dining solo, just coffee and an entree.  The service was excellent, food was served  lightning fast, the portions are generous (if a bit mediocre tasting), and the server was attentive.  The place was lively, but not packed.

When the check arrived, I thought the total was a bit high, then I noticed the tip line said "Additional gratuity".  Then I noticed that 18% gratuity has already been calculated in.  Seeing that, I added a small amount to approximate my normal 20% tip and left.  

This "little thing" has me never wanting to go back again.  I'm accustomed to (and expect) gratiutiy being added for large parties or certain special events, but don't think it should be done for normal size parties and especially not solo diners.  Also, there's was no signage (that I saw) or note on the menu about the gratuity policy. 

It feels dishonest, almost like they're expecting that many of their customers won't notice and calculate their tip as they normally would.  It also feels like it puts me in a weird spot where the pre-calculated gratity is a little lower than I would normally add, but adding a small makeup amount feels just as bad as leaving nothing.  

I won't be back because of this tip policy.  Am I being unreasonable, and this is just the way things are going with our tipping culture?

 

They should have provided notice, for sure. In situations where they add an 18% gratuity, I don't add any extra - they have indicated what they consider a reasonable gratuity. 

For his birthday, I took my husband to a wonderful French restaurant in Cole Valley - they advertise that they are a "no-tipping" place - the menu prices include a 20% surcharge that covers employee benefits, proft-sharing, etc. etc.   Works for me.

[Lotus-eater]

4 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

It is my understanding that banks and card providers (visa/mastercard) prohibit charging a fee for card use. At least that was the case when I was in banking. A merchant can be fined and the bank can stop offering you banking services if you do it. 

If I recall correctly, New York state law allows for a cash discount, but the price on the menu is what you need to use for cards. Maybe @rvwnsd can comment - he is more knowledgeable about banking than I am.

In all but a couple of states, merchants are allowed to charge a "convenience fee" for using a credit card when credit cards are not the usual method of payment for the business. So if the merchant normally accepts cash and debit cards for payment, then it may charge a convenience fee for using a credit card.

As a result of settlement with Mastercard/VISA in 2013, merchants may impose a blanket "surcharge" for using a credit card if it is disclosed up front. 

Edited May 30 by Lotus-eater

[+ azdr0710]

I'm sure we're going to solve the curious conundrum of US-style tipping in this little thread.........

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:22 AM, topunderachiever said:

Hardly anyone carries cash these days, except maybe... clowns.  😜

Not me!  I've gone cardless since the pandemic; paying everything in cash.  I'm loving it!  And I'm saving $ as more and more business pass on credit/debit fees to customers.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

8 hours ago, Pensant said:

I’m noticing more indie coffee places are not accepting cash anymore. I occasionally throw a 20 in my running shorts and stop by afterwards for an iced latte. I was dismayed that they now only accept plastic.

When I run across a card-only business, I be sure to let them know I only have cash.  If they still refuse me, I go to their nearby competitor.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, azdr0710 said:

I'm sure we're going to solve the curious conundrum of US-style tipping in this little thread.........

certainly !  

next up, deposits & condoms 

[rvwnsd]

7 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

It is my understanding that banks and card providers (visa/mastercard) prohibit charging a fee for card use. At least that was the case when I was in banking. A merchant can be fined and the bank can stop offering you banking services if you do it. 

If I recall correctly, New York state law allows for a cash discount, but the price on the menu is what you need to use for cards. Maybe @rvwnsd can comment - he is more knowledgeable about banking than I am.

For years, the agreements between merchants and the card associations, Amex, and Discover did not allow merchants to charge a fee for card use. That's not to say merchants didn't do it, but if they were reported they would get penalized. If a merchant repeatedly violated their agreement, they would be prohibited from accepting cards. 

I believe a recent court ruling found that card issuers could not prohibit merchants from charging extra for card use. Of course, that ruling will be appealed. It will be a strange mix of card issuers and consumer groups working together on that issue.

Several states allow a cash discount, which does not violate the merchant agreement.

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

Several states allow a cash discount, which does not violate the merchant agreement.

 

Correct.  The vending machines in my state have signs that read "Displayed prices are for Cash Only discount.  Full prices are 10 cents higher and apply to purchased with Card."

[mike carey]

12 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Correct.  The vending machines in my state have signs that read "Displayed prices are for Cash Only discount.  Full prices are 10 cents higher and apply to purchased with Card."

Which strikes me as odd. It's a clear case where there are easily calculated costs of collecting cash from machines (and processing it) and different clear costs of processing (but not collecting, apart from the EFT technology) credit and debit card payments. I'd be surprised if the cash costs are greater than the card costs, but you never know.

[rvwnsd]

4 hours ago, mike carey said:

Which strikes me as odd. It's a clear case where there are easily calculated costs of collecting cash from machines (and processing it) and different clear costs of processing (but not collecting, apart from the EFT technology) credit and debit card payments. I'd be surprised if the cash costs are greater than the card costs, but you never know.

The cost of processing cash is hard to pinpoint. There's a cost associated with depositing cash, a cost associated with the armored carrier who collects the cash and takes it to the counting facility, a cost associated with counting the cash, and a cost associated with obtaining cash. There are also the costs associated with complying with myriad anti-money laundering laws, the "know your customer" reviews, and on and on and on.

Working on a Bank Secrecy Act/Anti-Money Laundering compliance program was an eye-opener, as was overseeing the relationship between a long-ago employer and its armored courier and its banks.

The thing about vending machines is thieves will test stolen/counterfeit cards at self-serve gas stations and vending machines. Also, fraudsters will attach skimmers to the card readers. It is easy to go undetected because oftentimes no one is monitoring them.

[+ APPLE1]

I often believe the extra charge is only because businesses know customers will pay it, and some of it is clear profit.

Years ago, I had a friend who worked customer service for a private store credit card. He said the company did a study and found it cost 50 cents for the company to process a check payment mailed in. It was cost 25 cents for the company to take a check by phone. The company pushed customer service to take checks by phone, and no convieince fee was passed on to the customer.

[+ cougar]

A couple of years ago I was in a national chain restaurant in Washington State and they added what I thought was a ridiculous % amount to my check. It was so high, I asked to see the manager, and that was probably the first time in my 65 years of ever asking to see the manager at any business. He had a flippant attitude and said all the restaurants in Seattle are doing this and the added amount went to the company so that all employees could have health insurance, 401k and good wages. It was not paid to my server. He refused to remove it from my bill, so I paid with a card and gave my waiter cash tip. I will never eat at that chain again. 

[+ azdr0710]

26 minutes ago, cougar said:

A couple of years ago I was in a national chain restaurant in Washington State and they added what I thought was a ridiculous % amount to my check. It was so high, I asked to see the manager, and that was probably the first time in my 65 years of ever asking to see the manager at any business. He had a flippant attitude and said all the restaurants in Seattle are doing this and the added amount went to the company so that all employees could have health insurance, 401k and good wages. It was not paid to my server. He refused to remove it from my bill, so I paid with a card and gave my waiter cash tip. I will never eat at that chain again. 

Curious about this. Was the added fee identified as a 'gratuity' or did it have another description suggesting it was, instead, a supplement or surcharge??  Do you know if this chain is still charging this fee?  Care to name the chain?  Thanks. 

[+ cougar]

To be honest, I cannot remember how it was labeled on the receipt they brought to my table. The restaurant was Hard Rock Cafe.

[Ali Gator]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:46 AM, KeepItReal said:

It is my understanding that banks and card providers (visa/mastercard) prohibit charging a fee for card use. At least that was the case when I was in banking. A merchant can be fined and the bank can stop offering you banking services if you do it.

This is EXACTLY how it was (in RI) when I owned my business from the mid-80s through 2011. Each year, my  bank which I had my business account with had me sign a new contract with them and the 'electronic merchant processers' (VISA, MC, AAMEX, DISCOVER) each January,  in which I agreed I would not charge any extra service fees on these transactions, nor would I offer a discount to those customers paying cash. If I broke this contract and I was reported (with proof from the customer), there was a small progression of discipline - first offense was a written warning, second offense was another written warning and fine, and third offense was a fine and a notice letting me know I was no longer able to accept credit cards for the next 12 months. 

What bothered me was that a local performing arts center (which also did business with this bank) charged extra for cc purchases whenever you bought tickets. I questioned this one year when I was signing my contract, and was told they could do so because they were considered a 'non-profit'. Bullshit !

[Ali Gator]

My best experience with tipping has been at my PCP's office. During the pandemic, I went to my doctor for my physical. When I paid my copay ($20) with the receptionist and pulled out my credit card, she pointed to the POS on my side of the check-in, for me to insert myself.  Before it would process, the 'tip screen' came up.  I asked her how long has my doctor been taking tips, and how much do we tip him for a service not yet provided ?  (He's a handsome, muscled guy so I'd rather tip in cash and put it in his underwear if it was up to me).

She laughed and apologized, and said they had just gotten those installed, and the 'service technician' has to come back and re-program it with new software 'this week'. She told me to hit '0' and go from there - which I did.

 

Here it is four years later, and numerous appointments later (I do a follow-up every six months) and the same POS is there prompting me for a tip before it processes my credit card. Either the doctor has a great gig going on with tips, or the 'service tech' has been tied up for four years. 

 

 

[Johnrom]

Tipping has gotten out of hand and I do not appreciate the deviousness that some places undertake now.   I was in a major city recently. The bill for the meal was so high my eyes popped out.  I left the server his tip in cash.  A few days later I got my credit card bill and the bill was 20 dollars more than I signed for.   Someone at the restaurant added 20 bucks to the credit card.  I called my credit card company and contested it.  Something I have never done in three decades.  Drives me nuts 🥜 this tipping culture and greediness around higher tips.  If I get great service the tip always reflects it !  People are pushing back now - finally ! 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

15 hours ago, Johnrom said:

A few days later I got my credit card bill and the bill was 20 dollars more than I signed for.   Someone at the restaurant added 20 bucks to the credit card.

Yet another reason to only pay in cash.  It's just not worth the "points", especially when you factor in the time involved of checking receipts after payments post, plus the credit card transaction fees that are being passed on to the customer at more and more places.