Anybody else fall for the men they hire?

[FaustOust]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

I can see how these things happen, but I'll also say that a wise escort will always read the signs and put up non-awkward relationship roadblocks.

 And what does a “non-awkward relationship roadblock” look like?  It sounds like a means of prolonging a provider-client relationship by manipulating the client.  If so, how does that benefit the client?

[+ JamesB]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

I wanted to drill a bit deeper on this, because it relates to some things others have said.  So to you, James, and others,  I'm curious what the Escort's manipulating and/or playing-you looks like?  Where on the range is it from "treating you better than other escorts have during your sessions" to "Telling you he will forsake all other men for you if only (fill in the blank)"?

The second thing is when you, and others, say the Escort was just looking for money, do you mean, he was looking to keep you as a regular so you would keep paying his fee or do you mean he was looking for money/benefits above what you paid for your time together?  Thanks!

I don't feel comfortable sharing specific details of this relationship, but I’ll give some examples to illustrate the situation. The manipulation started with comments like “I don’t think of you as a client anymore,” “I have very strong feelings for you,” “I only feel safe when I'm with you.”.... And so on.

Regarding the money, every time I hired him, which sometimes was multiple times a week, he was paid his standard rate plus a generous tip. He also spent time with me off the clock, during which we would go out to eat, prepare meals at home, enjoy drinks, and have long conversations. Then the “extra” money requests began. It started with statements like, “It’s been a really slow month, and I'm really worried about my rent.” After injuring his shoulder, he needed help with the deductible, and because it was difficult for him to work, he required assistance with his monthly expenses. Every month, there was a new reason for needing extra money and every time the amounts were higher. When I finally started cutting back on the money, he began mistreating me. The first time I refused a money request for a trip to see his mom, he went ballistic, stormed out of my house, and shouted all kinds of insults that I prefer not to remember. And that, folks, is all she wrote.

I remember my mother telling me that the problem with helping people is that the first time you do it, you generate gratitude. Then you create anticipation and expectation, which turns into entitlement and dependency. Finally, when you stop helping, you receive hatred and resentment. This situation perfectly illustrated her point.

[DWnyc]

4 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

I can see how these things happen, but I'll also say that a wise escort will always read the signs and put up non-awkward relationship roadblocks.

Yes, if an escort is not only Wise but also a good person 

Some can use it to manipulate and drag things out in a horrible direction 

Though I can’t help Feeling it’s with the clients permission … maybe like the “findom” (and what the hell is it) discussion on here recently 

 

Edited June 15 by DWnyc

[+ APPLE1]

If someone expressed to me, “I don’t think of you as a client anymore,” I don't think I would have believed them if it wasn't followed by "so I can't take your money anymore."

I also try to remind myself that any relationship involves give and take. I shouldn't be the one always giving, or taking. If every activity we do socially is dependent on my means, it's not a good start for a relationship. It's not always easy to do when you are "established." However, for the value I place on a good relationship, eating baloney sandwiches from a paper bag after a walk through the park seems a small sacrifice if that's all the other one can afford on the dates they pay for.

Edited June 15 by APPLE1

[+ DrownedBoy]

10 hours ago, FaustOust said:

 And what does a “non-awkward relationship roadblock” look like?  It sounds like a means of prolonging a provider-client relationship by manipulating the client.  If so, how does that benefit the client?

It means to politely rebuff somebody's advances and hope they get the hint.

It's a good skill to learn, if you're a gay man.

[Rod Hagen]

10 hours ago, APPLE1 said:

If someone expressed to me, “I don’t think of you as a client anymore,” I don't think I would have believed them if it wasn't followed by "so I can't take your money anymore."

We know what is meant truly by "I don't think of you as a client anymore" is "I feel closer to you than other clients", it's just more awkwardly stated.

Given that, "so I can't take your money anymore" is a common forum response I've pushed against for the full 25 years (!!) of this forum.  I have several doctor friends, close relationships. Many of you do too.  We don't pay them when we go out to lunch, yet we most certainly pay them for the work*.  Same goes for the handyman, the housekeeper, the architect, and yes of course the Masseur.  So why expect freebies from your escort because what he's told you is that he feels closer to you than he does to others?

 

*When I was a young cocky escort I would post, on the forum, in a delusional response to threads about "off the clock meals", basically, "fuck you, I have enough friends."  What an insufferable, adorable, asshole I was.

[Rod Hagen]

14 hours ago, nycman said:

Ok, that was fun.

I don't speak Meme, or Gif, or whatever those are. I'm not being a stubborn GenXer, I mean I really really have a hard time understanding them.  I think I got the gist though.

[Rod Hagen]

14 hours ago, JamesB said:

The first time I refused a money request for a trip to see his mom, he went ballistic, stormed out of my house, and shouted all kinds of insults that I prefer not to remember. And that, folks, is all she wrote.

Thank you for sharing that.

I have a friend* with a wealthy husband.  In the earlier years of their relationship my friend was losing his business, which employed over a dozen other people, and needed about $75k to put it right.  Boyfriend would not give him the money, the business tanked and my friend lost the business.  Around that time, boyfriend spent $75k on a family shindig.  It stung.   

When someone with money cares about you, helps with luxuries and occasional emergencies, the lack of structure, the lack of clarity about where the poor person fits in the wealthy person's life, SPECIFICALLY FINANCIALLY, will make a poorer person feel unmoored and therefore uncared for.  It makes sense that, in a panic, the poorer person will tread water too vigorously saying, “I only feel safe when I'm with you”,  for example.  That doesn't mean it's not true, it's just maybe opportunistic and true.

I'm explaining, not excusing (and I shouldn't have to say that).

Edited June 15 by Rod Hagen

[+ DrownedBoy]

29 minutes ago, Rod Hagen said:

What an insufferable, adorable, asshole I was.

Came out at a young age, was once a cute twink, been there, done that. You're not alone, and it's not just escorts who once acted that way.

[Rod Hagen]

15 hours ago, nycman said:

only to be dumped on 10th Ave with a wad of $50’s. It’s a business relationship. And like all business relationships, it’s only really successful when both parties fully understand the terms and both parties are happy with said terms. 

I loved the description in Patti Smith's Just Kid's take on the accusation that Mapplethorp was after Wagstaff's money.  Something along the lines, they loved each other and they loved the parts that added up to the person.  Wagstaff loved Mapplethorp.  He loved Mapplethorp's beauty and talent and youth and style.  Mapplethrop loved Wagstaff/he loved Wagstaff's money, connections, style, and curation skills.  They were both in opportunistic love, which was love.

I think the younger person always THINKS he's Mapplethorp, but he's not.  Only Mapplethorp was Mapplethorp.  I agree with you entirely on the wad of $50s.  No young person would ever really be happy with the terms, if they thought long and hard about it, because their youth and beauty will die, and the wealthier person, baring tragedy, will always be wealthy.  As I've said before, he'll wipe his tears with $100 bills.

Edited June 15 by Rod Hagen

[Enzo Falcone]

16 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

I can see how these things happen, but I'll also say that a wise escort will always read the signs and put up non-awkward relationship roadblocks.

I’d be interested in hearing some of the ways you do this? Kind of like “sharing best practices” to see if there are takeaways I can apply, etc. 

[FaustOust]

3 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

It means to politely rebuff somebody's advances and hope they get the hint.

It's a good skill to learn, if you're a gay man.

A roadblock is by its very nature awkward.  It forces you to diverge from an established path or remove it.  I imagine an “unawkward roadblock”  would have to be more than averting an unwanted pass, as your response suggests.  It seems to me that what the “wise” provider, as @BenjaminNicholas  calls him, who finds himself in this situation should do is either have an honest discussion about his client’s feelings or drop the client.  To do otherwise seems like a manipulation to lead on the client just far enough for him to remain a client while somehow thwarting him from pursuing or desiring a personal relationship outside of client/provider. I just don’t think people should be manipulated in that way, particularly if one has made himself so vulnerable by sharing the true nature of his affection for his provider.

[Rudynate]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:01 AM, APPLE1 said:

I have never fallen for a provider. After reading stories here, I will be the first to say that I am lucky.

One thing that I wonder about your provider experiences is, how long are you engaging with them? Overnights, weekend, or vacations with a provider aren't MY thing for a number of reasons. I have to believe though, that longer hires create a greater risk of falling for a provider.

If you are hiring for longer periods, maybe hiring for shorter periods will allow you to still enjoy the hobby a bit, and not become quite so emotionally involved.

Me neither. I went into it with eyes wide open and have met some pretty terrific men, but have no difficulty keeping it in the appropriate-sized container

[pubic_assistance]

On 6/13/2024 at 10:35 PM, Rgsnva said:

it has to hit me then that I’m not one of those guys he met because he was attracted to them.  Big blow on both my ego and my heart.

I think this just speaks to his skill. A good "escort" who knows how to provide the true boyfriend experience.  It's like a great film with great actors. If I get drawn in enough I will cry during a powerful scene, in spite of the fact that it's not real. We can often lose ourselves in emotional moments. That's part of being human.

Edited June 16 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[+ KensingtonHomo]

18 hours ago, JamesB said:

I remember my mother telling me that the problem with helping people is that the first time you do it, you generate gratitude. Then you create anticipation and expectation, which turns into entitlement and dependency. Finally, when you stop helping, you receive hatred and resentment. This situation perfectly illustrated her point.

This is not the right lesson to take from this experience. You zipped past so many red flags where this guy was concerned. 

Your relationship with him started as a business transaction not as an offer of help. You then tipped and otherwise paid him more than his rate, and gave him money unrelated to the professional relationship. 

The moment he said “it’s been a slow month”, I would have pulled the ripcord. That’s when it moved from you being a generous client who enjoyed his company outside of work to a kind of sugar daddy.

I think @Rod Hagen had a good analogy with friends who are in other professions. I had a friendly relationship with our primary doctor for nearly 20 years. We shared meals and social gatherings, donated to each other’s causes from time to time, and so on. 

But just as I don’t expect him to treat me for free, it would be equally inappropriate for him to tell me his practice was struggling and ask for money.

When I’ve had friends who were struggling financially, I’ve often treated them to dinner or another experience that they couldn’t afford but I’ve never lent or given someone rent money. And if I did give that money, I would assume I’m never seeing it again. 

[Rod Hagen]

3 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

But just as I don’t expect him to treat me for free, it would be equally inappropriate for him to tell me his practice was struggling and ask for money.

I realize I brought up the doctor thing.  That said, the doctor-friend has resources that your escort-friend does not.  When desperate and without resources, one's concern about appropriateness decreases.

Edited June 15 by Rod Hagen

[+ nycman]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

I realize I brought up the doctor thing.  That said, the doctor-friend has resources that your escort-friend does not.  When desperate and without resources, one's concern about appropriateness decreases.

Ahhhh…now you’re playing both sides of the coin.

I call shenanigans.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

9 hours ago, Enzo Falcone said:

I’d be interested in hearing some of the ways you do this? Kind of like “sharing best practices” to see if there are takeaways I can apply, etc. 

A good magician never tells his audience how the tricks are accomplished, no?

[Enzo Falcone]

7 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

A good magician never tells his audience how the tricks are accomplished, no?

Yes, but a great magician would happily share a few secrets with fellow magicians, to help everyone elevate their craft 😉

Care to share a little magic? 🪄🐰🎩

(I actually fully respect your decision not to share. But I couldn’t resist the tongue-in-cheek response!) 

[Bjjx]

Stick to reality,you are using there body in exchange for cash,it’s a transaction,I pay you and in exchange for sex,intimacy.If feelings of love or emotional connection,even just a flicker,don’t see him drop him,unfortunately it’s  real,before you get hurt.just my two cents

[FaustOust]

5 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

A good magician never tells his audience how the tricks are accomplished, no?

The magician analogy proves the underlying truth about manipulation (which I imagine the providers here will not admit to.)  I dare say that, if he is trying to keep the client as a regular BFE, the provider WANTS the client to fall for him and have feelings but only enough to keep coming back. It’s unfortunate when the client is then blamed for being susceptible to the “magic” and goes past the boundary set by the escort, as some here have  implied.   Luring a client close to that boundary, perhaps even perilously so, appears to have been the whole intention of the provider all along.

Also, it seems that falling in love is presented here as a weakness of clients alone — a one way street — and providers are somehow above being burdened by such human frailty. I am curious to know if a provider would ever admit to loving a client.

[+ APPLE1]

17 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

We know what is meant truly

No, I really wouldn't have inferred any other meaning. I am pretty pragmatic and direct. I would have taken the provider's statement at face value.

I honestly would have seen only 2 possible paths for the meaning. Then, I would have asked questions to figure out if he wanted to be 1) fuck buddies, or 2) something "more."  And, in the back of MY mind, I would have been planning for the polite rebuff if he wanted to go down path 2.

I also say that coming from a place where, I have a good handle on which regulars I have just a business relationship, and which ones I have a business and friend level relationship with. While those relationships may have had a budding period as the friendship piece developed, I've never experienced radical ambiguity in defining those relationships at any stage along the way.

Edited June 16 by APPLE1

[blck37]

4 hours ago, FaustOust said:

The magician analogy proves the underlying truth about manipulation (which I imagine the providers here will not admit to.)  I dare say that, if he is trying to keep the client as a regular BFE, the provider WANTS the client to fall for him and have feelings but only enough to keep coming back. It’s unfortunate when the client is then blamed for being susceptible to the “magic” and goes past the boundary set by the escort, as some here have  implied.   Luring a client close to that boundary, perhaps even perilously so, appears to have been the whole intention of the provider all along.

Also, it seems that falling in love is presented here as a weakness of clients alone — a one way street — and providers are somehow above being burdened by such human frailty. I am curious to know if a provider would ever admit to loving a client.

One to ponder really.

Even my most trusted regular would (in certain circumstances) try to pull some 'tricks' here and there - and would apologies *in his way* whenever I call him out. 

I honestly believe this hobby is not suited for the weak willed, it play dangerously on the edge of hurting one's heart. Knowing one's limits and how to safeguard feeling are paramount. Just like any matters irl, whenever $$$ is involved, its never as it appears.

My golden rule are:

1) learn to spot the manipulation and set your boundaries - one should know how much 'damage' you are willing to take

2) (not to be self depreciating) be real and honest to oneself, aint no way that provider be falling in love with me (I am not ugly by any standard: i am fit, good height, make good $$$ - an average looking guy) but still some self awareness is important in this hobby (and life generally really). He might be geniune in how he treats me as a client or even as a mate. But not as a potential partner. $$$ can buy time and affection, but never love. 

Re point (2), one way to keep me grounded is having a 3s with my regular and other hot provider - there and then you would know. A harsh slap on the face that is, but needed to keep me from living in the fantasy. 

[Enzo Falcone]

8 hours ago, FaustOust said:

The magician analogy proves the underlying truth about manipulation (which I imagine the providers here will not admit to.)  I dare say that, if he is trying to keep the client as a regular BFE, the provider WANTS the client to fall for him and have feelings but only enough to keep coming back. It’s unfortunate when the client is then blamed for being susceptible to the “magic” and goes past the boundary set by the escort, as some here have  implied.   Luring a client close to that boundary, perhaps even perilously so, appears to have been the whole intention of the provider all along.

Also, it seems that falling in love is presented here as a weakness of clients alone — a one way street — and providers are somehow above being burdened by such human frailty. I am curious to know if a provider would ever admit to loving a client.

I’d like to comment on a few points here. 
 

Providing a high quality service should not be conflated with manipulation. This service is often based on 60 minute blocks. A fair amount of that time also considers the non-sexual components of building and maintaining a relationship. In order to continue feeling comfortable enough to share fantasies and try new things, providers need to create that safe space. 

At the end of the day, when sex and intimacy is involved, it’s really hard to separate the emotional aspect of it. As a provider, I’ve definitely developed a love for some of my clients. Not a romantic love, but a strong connection in which I want to continue seeing them succeed in life. Am I being manipulative when I am happy for them? 

And whoever blames a client for being human is in the wrong. Full stop. This is a two way street. I’d argue that providers have more awareness as to what’s actually happening because we maintain several relationships with clients at the same time. So you might hear more stories on the client side. But someone else shared that his feelings for a provider turned into a happy marriage. 

Love isn’t a weakness. Relationships exist in various forms. Caring about what I do, doing it well, and being engaging isn’t manipulative. I always question the intent behind the action. If it’s to hold on to power, or person. Then it’s manipulative. 

Thoughts?

[TonyDown]

I used to see a masseur in Palm Springs, a really sweet guy, just my type.  Eventually my heart did go pitter-pat over him.  It's a nice feeling.  

I tipped him well to make sure he knew how much I appreciated him.   When we parted I would give him a loving hug and let my lips touch against his neck.  Lastly I thanked him for seeing me.

To me it was perfectly fine, being a little bit in love with a really nice guy that gave me special massages.

I agree with the previous post, if a client is bothered, for instance when realizing the provider is with other clients, one might need to look yourself in the mirror.

If the provider is spending time with you "off the clock" that's cool, as long as both understand what's going on.   To me it seems messy but I expect some guys can figure it out.