struggling to connect / find intimacy

[lseactuary90]

3 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

OP, it seems that nobody has added any new suggestion that you hadn’t already considered or that even the most basically skilled therapist wouldn’t have already covered. In fact, your responses may represent a parallel to the core dynamics : as if that’s sweet of you and I can engage with any input, you add politely, but that’s not the one key idea that could help yet I appreciate it and all but still a mismatch etc.

I am not suggesting contrarianism but simply lack of fit of opinion, as mine might also be inadequate. 

I have tried to extract your central inquiry about your potential. I think it may be whether limerence is possible for you, the state of ‘vapours’ for want of a better term, a pronounced activation of desire for a specific person that persists long enough to build substantial sustainable multidimensional connectivity when the initial but superficial spark naturally fades and morphs into meaningful BF territory or more.

You insinuated, though I cannot be sure, that nobody evocative of limerence in you has yet to be subject to its activation in them by you. So it appears that you have an idiosyncratic lack of inclination to limerence (I wasn’t sure whether in principle you are cynical about this human characteristic or pessimistic based on experience to date) or that the two it takes to tango has yet to occur.

Essentially, then, have you been excited about any one fellow that did not reciprocate? Then it’s more a matter of kissing more frogs.

Alternatively, you may not have the temperament for a lasting romantic connection and the additive value of sequential encounters may be the model you are working with and could be meaningful in its own way.

All good points here. 

To answer your question, no, I have not been excited by someone who wasn't excited back. I tend to 'pick up a vibe' in the hookup and if they send some signal they are interested (e.g. something they say about me, asking if i am single, ask for my whatsapp number), or reciprocate mine (e.g. I ask for their whatsapp number) then I know ok there is some interest here, let's continue. It is at this point things go wrong. They will vanish for 2 weeks, I will learn they are visiting or taken (this is rare but happens), there will be something that happens for us basically to never meet again. So then, I just continue kissing the frogs. So there is some limerence but I guess my logic side takes over when it fizzles/fades and gives it the weighting it deserves to process.

It is indeed possible I may not have the temperament for a lasting romantic connection and sequential encounters is all I can handle. What I will say is there have been a handful of times I've felt very satisfied with the connection in the hookup (and sometimes its literally just a cuddle, no sex) that I am not jumping back on the app looking for the next thing. If I also was completely okay with bouncing from one person to another, I'm not sure why I would go to therapy, make this thread, etc because something 'inside' of me just feels this is not right or something is not adding up. 

[lseactuary90]

16 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Is this a problem for P.o.c. dating white men or other P.o.c. ?

POC's dating in general. The overall gist of what people share / I see

for whites:

1. white is at the top, and can cherry pick from their own and anyone else. an average white guy is getting much more attention than a poc who is equal or even slightly higher. 

2. usually the white guys who can't find their own (looks lacking, older so their hole is more open, money issues etc) then choose another race. this is how you see 10/10 black men for example hooking up with 3/10 white men in parties, but still struggling to date them. social media skews these perceptions. in all honestly, even in the mixed / inter-racial couples i see, i never see the white person hotter/richer or just 'better' than the coloured person in the relationship (especially in gay ones, it is very clear who is bringing what to the table). 

there are exceptions of course e.g. they met at school before all biases set in, the person was raised with people of colour e.g. a white guy raised in a black town, exposed to people of colour through the profession (e.g. white medical guys will chase indian guys because literally every doctor seems to be brown lmao). i think there are some other exceptions but this is generally what i see. 

for pocs:

1. if the poc was born/raised in a western country (e.g. usa, uk, canada) they are 'white washed' so they have a preference for a white person because that is seen as the highest standard. they enter the relationship but often bringing more to the table or are pumped and dumped.

2. if the poc immigrated, they tend to try and find their own. after a few years they also become 'white washed' and will move into category #1 behaviour. 

in the analysis above i am generally talking also about <40 year olds. what i do notice >40 (so after the whites have had a few relationships, maybe even a marriage) is they look for something 'different' so all the stats around inter-racial start picking up then. 

Edited August 25 by lseactuary90

[SirBillybob]

I wonder if somehow the raw material that would aid in determining your true attachment style is somehow paradoxically inaccessible to you in spite of the high volume of introductory interaction. 

[lseactuary90]

Just now, SirBillybob said:

I wonder if somehow the raw material that would aid in determining your true attachment style is somehow paradoxically inaccessible to you in spite of the high volume of introductory interaction. 

Interested by what you mean here.

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

there are exceptions of course e.g. they met at school before all biases set in, the person was raised with people of colour e.g. a white guy raised in a black town, exposed to people of colour through the profession (e.g. white medical guys will chase indian guys because literally every doctor seems to be brown lmao). i think there are some other exceptions but this is generally what i see. 

There are definitely exceptions, because I have dated many men and women who are non-white. When I was younger I was good looking enough to get whatever I wanted. I dated several wonderful people ...and never felt that I was held up as superior simply because I was white. (Possible that I missed that)...but I don't think so. I was attractive/ they were attractive. The subsequent relationships always felt balanced in regard to who was "valued".

I can say that I've always dated outside my own CULTURE since I was in college...and i know THAT can be a challenge no matter what your skin color.

Edited August 25 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[SirBillybob]

9 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

Interested by what you mean here.

To coin the term falling in love, infatuation etc for want of better descriptors, even limerence may hinge on more than the most fleeting and minimalist of encounters, however plentiful in quantity of new ones. I’m just not sure what the relative contribution to the ejection seat pattern is here. You suggest that you are comparatively subject to being let go? Not sure.

Edited August 25 by SirBillybob

[pubic_assistance]

8 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

To coin the term falling in love, infatuation etc

I think you're referring to cathexis..which is the more natural state of "falling for someone". Limmerance is a more obsessive state where you compulsively adore someone and worry they don't love you in return. It sounds like @lseactuary90 hasn't quite gotten past cathexis with anyone enough to be obsessing over them leaving him.

 

Edited August 25 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[SirBillybob]

Try to get ahold of this chapter. I found long ago that it contained some interesting insights on how limerence can be overly activated for various functional psychological reasons, on the one hand, or on the other hand suppressed for similar adaptive reasons. It won’t solve a problem necessarily but a lot of people find the ideas relatable. Don’t get caught up in the ‘sexual desire’ labelling; that part is simply illustrative within the context of mismatched desire in primary attachment relationships. 

[SirBillybob]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I think you're referring to cathexis..which is the more natural state of "falling for someone". Limmerance is a more obsessive state where you compulsively adore someone and worry they don't love you in return. I sounds like @lseactuary90 hasn't quite gotten past cathexis with anyone enough to be obsessing over them leaving him.

 

Yes, I understand the distinction. However, both have been referenced on a gradient from extreme at one end to simply the messy glue that bonds initially and not necessarily pathologically. The boiling bunny rabbit on the stove won’t quibble about it bring collateral cathected or limerenced damage. Not gonna split hares. 😉 

Edited August 25 by SirBillybob

[pubic_assistance]

What I meant is that I don't think he's getting past a first date...so there's no "worry" component of limmerance since they can't leave him if they aren't even following up for a second date.

But it's also not clear that he's meeting anyone he particularly WANTS to date.

So basically searching for a moment of mutual cathexis to occur. Always elusive ..but eventually possible.

 

[SirBillybob]

4 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

What I meant is that I don't think he's getting past a first date...so there's no "worry" component of limmerance since they can't leave him if they aren't even following up for a second date.

But it's also not clear that he's meeting anyone he particularly WANTS to date.

So basically searching for a moment of mutual cathexis to occur. Always elusive ..but eventually possible.

 

I think of limerence or cathexis as a change in condition as much biochemical as cognitive, but neither in arbitrary sequence or necessarily with a central feature of abandonment fear because these psychological states can occur in neutral interactive contexts. 

The state or term is moot in a way because its existence and quality is no guarantee of a good outcome. The question is one of capacity to experience a sufficient degree of being just overwhelmed enough as opposed to nonchalance. Indifference could be absolute absence of interest, or suppression of interest (in fact either feigned or alternatively successfully shut down) that might otherwise flourish if reciprocated. 

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

Indifference could be absolute absence of interest, or suppression of interest

I think its possible that if @lseactuary90 is meeting and trying to date other 30-something men exclusively there may be a lot of indifference when the possibilities seem endless. Young sexually active people don't always prioritize relationships until something really clicks in an extraordinary way.

[wanderlust307]

It's a long threat far beyond my attention span. So I will probably not answer @lseactuary90 questions. Just one point. I don't think love can be ordered or programmed. You don't wake up one morning and say I want to fall in love  and presto you do. The same for other types of relationships. 

You are lucky to live in a metropolis with many opportunities (although not as many...). So enjoy it and stop wondering where is love. 

PS. Is therapy still around? I thought it's replaced by pills.

[ShortCutie7]

@lseactuary90 as a fellow 30-something in NYC I feel you (and have also never been in a relationship), and I really don’t think it has as much to do with you as it does the game itself.  When I think of all of the gays I know who are around our age and in committed long-term relationships, I don’t think most of them met on apps or dating sites; they met through friends, work, activities, etc.  When I was in the stage of my life that I was open to dating/a relationship (I genuinely don’t have the time for that now, but that’s another story), I went on a couple dates and had a few “mind-blowing” hookups, but they never went anywhere.  My philosophy is that love will find me when the time is right.

[lseactuary90]

12 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I think you're referring to cathexis..which is the more natural state of "falling for someone". Limmerance is a more obsessive state where you compulsively adore someone and worry they don't love you in return. It sounds like @lseactuary90 hasn't quite gotten past cathexis with anyone enough to be obsessing over them leaving him.

 

oh, yes, you are right. 

[lseactuary90]

12 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

What I meant is that I don't think he's getting past a first date...so there's no "worry" component of limmerance since they can't leave him if they aren't even following up for a second date.

But it's also not clear that he's meeting anyone he particularly WANTS to date.

So basically searching for a moment of mutual cathexis to occur. Always elusive ..but eventually possible.

 

But there is a mutual cathexis I think. For example, there have been hookups I've been open to seeing again/repeating. And they are asking for my number / replying saying lets meet soon etc. But then it either doesn't happen, or months later at best, at which point I've lost interest. That said, I did follow through a few times, and needless to say, it didn't repeat from there.

[lseactuary90]

11 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I think its possible that if @lseactuary90 is meeting and trying to date other 30-something men exclusively there may be a lot of indifference when the possibilities seem endless. Young sexually active people don't always prioritize relationships until something really clicks in an extraordinary way.

I don't have such a strict age boundary and even hookup with singles 90%+ of the time. 

That said, I agree with your comment about something clicking in an extraordinary way, I'm just unsure how I get there without allowing 10+ more years of this endless cycle to repeat?

[lseactuary90]

2 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

@lseactuary90 as a fellow 30-something in NYC I feel you (and have also never been in a relationship), and I really don’t think it has as much to do with you as it does the game itself.  When I think of all of the gays I know who are around our age and in committed long-term relationships, I don’t think most of them met on apps or dating sites; they met through friends, work, activities, etc.  When I was in the stage of my life that I was open to dating/a relationship (I genuinely don’t have the time for that now, but that’s another story), I went on a couple dates and had a few “mind-blowing” hookups, but they never went anywhere.  My philosophy is that love will find me when the time is right.

I'm not sure. A lot of couples I speak to, met via a party, hookup etc. Yes, a number through friends etc too. 

I guess my thought was even if this is the "game", how do I get better at it? Its less about finding "love" as it is experiencing "more" than a hookup. You know?

[lseactuary90]

8 hours ago, wanderlust307 said:

It's a long threat far beyond my attention span. So I will probably not answer @lseactuary90 questions. Just one point. I don't think love can be ordered or programmed. You don't wake up one morning and say I want to fall in love  and presto you do. The same for other types of relationships. 

You are lucky to live in a metropolis with many opportunities (although not as many...). So enjoy it and stop wondering where is love. 

PS. Is therapy still around? I thought it's replaced by pills.

The expectation is not to "find love", its to "experience more". If everything only starts/ends with a hookup, I'm not sure how long one can "enjoy" that for?

[wanderlust307]

19 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

The expectation is not to "find love", its to "experience more". If everything only starts/ends with a hookup, I'm not sure how long one can "enjoy" that for?

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry that I cannot follow this path of questions.

Good luck.

[TonyDown]

3 hours ago, ShortCutie7 said:

@lseactuary90 as a fellow 30-something in NYC I feel you (and have also never been in a relationship), and I really don’t think it has as much to do with you as it does the game itself.  When I think of all of the gays I know who are around our age and in committed long-term relationships, I don’t think most of them met on apps or dating sites; they met through friends, work, activities, etc.  When I was in the stage of my life that I was open to dating/a relationship (I genuinely don’t have the time for that now, but that’s another story), I went on a couple dates and had a few “mind-blowing” hookups, but they never went anywhere.  My philosophy is that love will find me when the time is right.

Good point.  Couples often meet through friends.  

Perhaps a good way to practice intimacy is begin by paying attention to how we treat friends and other acquaintances.

Takes some work but not too hard.  It can be simple.

However I sense the OP idea of intimacy might not be the same as how I look at it.

[dbar123]

You need to cultivate some interesting hobbies and have something in common other than sex. Whether it’s politics, painting, music, cars, tennis etc. Something to bond over initially. 

[Monarchy79]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:03 PM, BuffaloKyle said:

I have seen counselors on and off. After talking to counselors about addictions you really can't be addicted to sex or porn. You're not going to have any withdrawal symptoms from not having sex or not watching porn. Just my opinion.

There are substance-based addictions (alcohol, drugs, etc.) 

Then there are non-substance based addictions (video games, gambling, etc) 

Sex and porn addictions fall under the non-substance based addictions.

There are withdrawals from both types. 
With sex-based addictions, the withdrawals are stimulated from the lack of overproduction of dopamine created from excessive acts of sex. From that significant drop, cortisol and other stress hormones work in overdrive, causing withdrawal symptoms. Sex addicts in withdrawal can suffer from headaches, lack of mental clarity, and other physical ailments. 
 

 

 

[BuffaloKyle]

40 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

There are substance-based addictions (alcohol, drugs, etc.) 

Then there are non-substance based addictions (video games, gambling, etc) 

Sex and porn addictions fall under the non-substance based addictions.

There are withdrawals from both types. 
With sex-based addictions, the withdrawals are stimulated from the lack of overproduction of dopamine created from excessive acts of sex. From that significant drop, cortisol and other stress hormones work in overdrive, causing withdrawal symptoms. Sex addicts in withdrawal can suffer from headaches, lack of mental clarity, and other physical ailments. 

We can agree to disagree. 👍

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:37 PM, SirBillybob said:

I wonder if somehow the raw material that would aid in determining your true attachment style is somehow paradoxically inaccessible to you in spite of the high volume of introductory interaction. 

In other words, stop being a slut!

Even if it's for 3 months; abstain from sexual encounters until the end of a 3rd date.  It's an "old school" guideline from our parents' generation; but, maybe they were on to something.