When Does the Clock Begin??

[Guest KJ]

I have a problem with the analogy between negotiating the fee for an escort session (of any length) and haggling over the cost of an architect's services.

 

If I offer to pay less than the quoted price for an escort, how do I know he won't hold back? It's unlikely than the architect will leave out the bathrooms because I'm paying him a reduced rate. But the escort might decide not to kiss as passionately, or not to use his mouth in other pleasant maneuvres, or whatever.

 

I'd like to think it wouldn't happen, but I'd always wonder.

[Guest Konga]

>And your point that

>escorts are involved in a

>somewhat risky profession is well-taken.

> But I'm not sure

>that affects the idea of

>negotiation much.

 

From their side of the law, it may effect their willingness to haggle more than we realize (which is not to say that we as clients are not without concerns of our own). I suppose until we walk a mile or three in their shoes, we won't really know, but something else that may factor into escorts reluctance to negotiate is the very number of clients who attempt to nickle and dime these guys to death.

 

>But negotiation doesn't have to be

>demeaning at all...... it's often an

>acknowledgment of the fact that the

>other person is intelligent

>and has something valuable to offer.

>.....negotiations approached with

>tact and respect for the

>other party, and an attempt

>to understand what the other

>party really wants, really can

>lead to a situation where

>both parties find themselves quite

>happy with the end result.

 

Agreed, but in an ideal world, where the scenario you've just described is more likely to transpire, we wouldn't have need for negotiating with escorts. We wouldn't need escorts. Our lives would be perfect already. But we don't live in an ideal world (at least I don't). Hiring the guys I've been fortunate enough to have spent time with has made my imperfect world more bearable. For that, I gladly pay the price quoted, no questions asked. If the price is beyond my budget, I move on. And whenever I can afford to (and the escort is deserving), I will also offer a tip. Some may call that gullible, I call it appreciation for the services escorts provide, and an understanding of all that it means to be one. Although I certainly agree with your point about respectful negotiation, I believe some professional services are better suited for that business approach, and others should simply be paid for and enjoyed.

For me, the clock starts at the designated meeting time. If I hire a guy for three or four hours, I pay him for three or four hours, regardless of what we do in that time, or what else it costs me. If he stays longer, I make sure he understands my financial obligation to him has been fulfilled, and that he is off the clock. I treat the guys I've hired as people and friends. As such, they proven quite easy to speak frankly with in these matters, even if it meant breaking the action. I've never had one leave when this was the case. As I've said, I've been fortunate. The ones who stay longer to chat or whatever are the ones who are more likely to get a tip when they do depart. I do however take a long and considered length of time before choosing an escort, and will exchange a number of emails and at least one phone chat before making a decision. Perhaps this has helped in alleviating any desire of mine to negotiate the cost of an invaluable service.

[Boston Guy]

Konga -

 

Part of happiness, I think, is learning what it is that makes us happy and how to obtain that. It sounds like you have found a solution that works well for you. Certainly it sounds like a solution that is respectful of the process and the people in it. There is nothing to criticize in that. If it works for you and makes you happy, for God's sake don't change it. :-)

 

I've learned that life is full of many different paths and we all walk down our own path. There are times I won't even contact an escort who charges more than I'm willing to pay; in fact, that's generally the case. But sometimes I will and sometimes I've had escorts contact me (usually on AOL) and that will lead to a conversation.

 

And if I were an escort, I'd definitely be tired of all the scheming that goes on online and the guys who are trying to pull a fast one or get something for free or even just get their rocks off talking to escorts. Those games are endless and must drive the escorts nuts. But I'm pretty serious about what I do and I suspect the escorts I talk to figure that out pretty quickly.

 

I like seeing guys regularly and prefer having a few guys I know and can count on over constantly meeting different guys. If I talk to an escort, he'll pretty soon understand that (a) I'm not interested in paying more than $200 per hour on an hourly basis; (b) I'm serious and not about wasting his time; © I'm definitely respectful of what he's offering and I'm pretty easy-going (hard as that might be to believe!); (d) I might be interested in getting together regularly when I'm in his city, if we like each other; and (e) I might well be willing to pay more than $200 in an evening on some occasions -- I just have decided that more than $200 per hour is more than I'm willing to pay. And if we've gotten together for an hour or two, I might well be willing to take him to dinner, but I'm not going to also pay him an hourly fee for the time we spend at dinner.

 

Some guys thank me and say that they prefer to stick with their original price. That's ok with me and I don't feel bad or put down, because the conversation will have been mutually respectful. On the other hand, most of the guys I've talked to have immediately been interested and want to know more about what I have in mind. And, as I've said before, I think an awful lot of escorts view $200 per hour as pretty good wages.

 

If we can't come to some sort of meeting of the minds where we both feel good, then it's better not to proceed and I've had that happen. But much more often it works the other way.

 

I'm not out to nickel and dime anyone and I'm always respectful. I don't care if the guy is 19 or 29 or 39, I just automatically assume until proven wrong that he's a decent guy and fellow human being and is worthy of respect and support. And I find the escorts tend to treat me in the same way.

 

So I guess it's not a case of what's right and what's wrong, but what works best for each of us.

 

Thanks for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking reply.

[Bilbo]

KJ - If I were an architect and were not being paid what I had hoped for, well, sure, you'd get all your bathrooms. But, unless I knew that other people might be judging me on this work, I'm not sure you'd get all the dados and originality, etc. This is often a subject among actors - If there are no important reviewers involved, or if I'm nearly retired and don't expect my career to get any better - in other attempted words, if there is no other factor besides my own muse and the money to be considered, does a theater which is paying me a percentage of the door after expenses (Aren't I an expense?) (and they're usually not willing to show you their books) get the same Lear that a theater paying you a living wage would? All I'm trying to say is, maybe the analogy to an architect makes more sense than is readily apparent to you.

 

Konga - I disagre with you on one point. If ours were a perfect world, I feel that there would still be escorting. Escorting done expertly could be just as perfect as any other adult entertainment. In a perfect world, for me, there would still be old Broadway style musical comedies.

[Guest Konga]

>Konga - I disagre with you

>on one point. If ours

>were a perfect world, I

>feel that there would still

>be escorting. Escorting done expertly

>could be just as perfect

>as any other adult entertainment.

 

Of course, you are quite right about its' ability to achieve perfection as a form of entertainment, but would it be needed as such if all of us as clients had just the right amount of friends, intimacy, love, sex, and thrills in our lives? I suppose that question could be put to escorts as well. Would anyone become an escort if their life was already perfect? I guess maybe if their pursuit in life was to become the perfect escort, and they could find enough clients who's own vision of perfection can only be found with escorts, it might happen. But we all have our own version of what's ideal. It's getting pretty tricky, so forget I asked, but I agree with your point (I think).

 

Boston Guy:

 

>I think an awful lot of escorts

>view $200 per hour as

>pretty good wages.

 

If they don't, they certainly should. Most I know are quite pleased with that, and most will lower that rate the more hours you book. And that extra time booked does not have to be spent spending more money at a restaraunt or a show. Watch a little TV, cook at home, take a long bath together, whatever. I enjoy their companionship, however brief, as much as I do their sexual charms.

 

>If we can't come to some

>sort of meeting of the

>minds where we both feel

>good, then it's better not

>to proceed

 

Absolute truth.

 

>But much

>more often it works the

>other way.

 

That's reaffirming to hear.

 

>I'm not out to nickel and

>dime anyone and I'm always

>respectful.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that you were guilty of that. Sorry if it came across as such.

 

>I just automatically assume until proven

>wrong that he's a decent

>guy and fellow human being

>and is worthy of respect

>and support. And I

>find the escorts tend to

>treat me in the same

>way.

 

Here, here. If only every professional in every profession would follow suit.

 

>So I guess it's not a

>case of what's right and

>what's wrong, but what works

>best for each of us.

 

You're darn tootin'!

 

>Thanks for such a thoughtful and

>thought-provoking reply.

 

And to you for your client/escort guideline posts. The fact that so many of the guidelines are the same for both parties merely bolsters the old "do unto others" tenet that I try to live by, as apparently, do you. Thanks.

[Guest jizzdepapi]

Pay for dinner?

 

i'm a working-class guy so they're lucky if they get a cheeseburger out of me.

 

seriously, since i usually hire guys for overnites, i order out sometime during the evening and always make sure my hotel fridge is well-stocked.

 

jizz

[Bilbo]

Wasn't live theater supposed to die several times already? Radio, movies etc were all supposed to kill it off. (And, now, there will be this summer's experiment in an all CGI cast trying to do without human actors - while still using human actor's voices. Just what is the difference between that movie (name temporarily forgotten) and Shrek, techniquewise?). I know that it would not be a perfect world for me without live theater. And I strongly suspect that the same would be true for escorting. Maybe I'm not adding anything to the discussion, just repeating myself, but I liked the point so much the first time ...

[Guest cp8036]

I'd see the Producers for free. The coreography in Spring Time is tops !!!!!

[Guest Vegasboy Dave]

I agree with you as I am not a clock watcher at all, if someone wants to take me out to dinner it is usually a overnight or to spend all day with me and i have a discounted rate for that! If they want to spend like 4 hours with me which includes Dinner, playing and what have you, I usually cut them a deal on the rate, as i see dinner as somewhat companionship, but should be lowered a little, and for communiting no escort should charge for that unless it is over 50 miles and i say 50 miles because of gas prices now especialy if they have a gas hog like my vehicle is! Also if a client and a escort work out prices before they meet, it makes the whole evening go smoothly where there is no hidden fees once that escort arrives!

 

Cumming to Vegas sometime, look me up and we will have a great time!

 

Vegasboy Dave

http://www.vegasboy.com/vbescort

[Guest LaurelKid]

I always thought the clock started when you actually get into bed and start "doing it". I am new to the business as having just started escorting part time. After reading some of the posts here, I would think a lot of clients would get turned off by so business like a attitude. On the other hand I realize time is money, but should I include time talking and getting to know a client part of the deal? What would be considered a normal amount of time for talking and getting to know one another?

[+ deej]

LaurelKid, there's no single answer here. It's up to *you*, so long as the client's expectations are firmly set in advance and met by you.

 

One of my favorite pornstar/escorts is very much a clock watcher. The clock starts ticking the minute he comes in the door. When time's up it's like bread popping up in a toaster. He's outta there. It's a valid approach. As you say, time is money. I've enjoyed his company many times, because I really do enjoy his company.

 

On the other end of the scale, my first visit with a well-respected escort on this site went WAY long. At the end of our agreed-on 2 hours, we were still fucking. I slowed down long enough to point out the time and he whispered "I don't care, keep going". Once we finished, we showered (and played) together for a good long time.

 

Afterwards, I invited him to join me for dinner. Not only did he drive (I was unfamiliar with the city), he insisted on picking up the tab for dinner!

 

It all depends on *your* comfort level and what *you* want to leave in a client's mind after the encounter.

[Losgatan]

As you can see, there are lots of different opinions about this here.

 

However, I believe it ultimately depends on what the client is looking for. If the client is hiring for a single hour and is primarily interested in sex, the clock should start when you arrive. You can probably assume that the first 10 to 20 minutes of the hour will be used for lets-get-acquainted chit chat. Some escorts routinely figure on another 10 to 20 minutes of conversation after sex -- and that's usually "off the clock."

 

However, there are other clients like myself who hire primarily for companionship and really enjoy getting to know the escort as a person. The sexual encounter is secondary. We tend to book for longer periods. We often include a meal and some entertainment in the agenda and expect to pay the escort for participating in these events. Again, the clock should start when you arrive but the hourly rate should be adjusted to reflect the fact you won't be in the sack for the entire time.

[+ nycman]

>the hourly

>rate should be adjusted to

>reflect the fact you won't

>be in the sack for

>the entire time.

 

And why is that? Personally I'd rather fuck ANYTHING for 10 hours than have to sit through the Ring Cycle again.

 

I guess that's why I'm not an escort. I can see it now….me being invited to dinner at Tavern on the Green followed by Phantom of the Opera…“Can't I just blow you and go home!”

 

Or as Margaret Cho says, "I'm not a slut....I'm a timesaver".

[Guest swiftone]

I agree with much of what has already been said here. My understanding is that time begins once the escort arrives. Depending on the length of the date, I like to spend some time getting to know each other before the main event. As for dinner, I have only suggested going out for dinner on longer appointments, on an overnight, for example. Like nycman, I would much rather spend ten hours making out and getting fucked, but dinner can be nice too.

[Guest 7Zach]

good insight, deej; i too would hope that the escort would pick up the dinner tab as a matter of form.

[Guest Berdy]

Since I haven't seen a lot of escorts weigh in on this topic I feel obligated to fill the void.

 

I've been an escort and masseur for the past 5 years and have had 98% wonderful experiences. There are a lot of really wonderful guys out there hiring escorts and in that 98% I consider each and every one completely special. However, there is another 2% that really leaves a lasting sting. I know there are a lot of unscrupulous escorts out there. I've met them too. However, lets not forget that both sides of the fence can get ugly.

 

On the subject of dinner, I usually consider that time free time to share with the client in a social setting if I've got the time. However, I also respect other escorts right to charge for their time for this event as long as its disclosed prior to acceptence. I tend to have a lot going on with other client bookings, sleep needed to keep myself sane and healthy, school, other work that I do... As long as the client books early enough that I can eat, have fun, and get to bed at a decent time, I love to eat with them. I've also had to decline on a number of occasions because it was just getting too late for me, I've had prior engagements, and the dinner invitation came last minute or I had office deadlines to return to. I'd love to see some of these clients again, but when I don't know ahead of time what their expectations are - and I go to great effort to get them to tell me so I know whether we are compatible for each other or not - it can be very difficult to accomodate.

 

On the thread brought up in here about erotic massage, I try to stick to a theraputic massage completely if I can and I don't state that my massage is erotic in any of my ads. However, guys will assume that since I advertise in the gay market then anything can go. That's a great fantasy, but a dangerous reality in terms of potential disappointment. I often spend more time setting boundaries with clients than actually giving the massage and that's just plain exhausting. The way I see it is that I've spent years of my life studying massage, have years of experience; from doing dozens of exchanges I know I give one of the best massages available in Los Angeles; and I don't misrepresent what I'm selling. I think trying to manipulate sex in that situation is just plain rude. If the client is respectful of me, I will probably offer a really nice release at the end. On rare occassion I want to play with them a little more but experience has taught me that if I play with them once, they will expect it every time thereafter and I may not have the energy or time to do it next time. I love doing massage. I use it as an income supplement to escort. I try to keep my sexual energy high for my escort clients who are paying for that privelege. For this reason, I don't participate more than a release with my massage clients. This is my reasoning.

 

In my early massage/escort years I played a lot more during massage and on occasion found myself totally devoid of sexual energy when I got an escort client at the end of the evening.

That made me feel like a total fraud. I don't like feeling like that, so I made changes to the massage to make it more therapeutic.

 

As far as time spent with clients, and I know many of you have been burned by these words, I don't watch the clock. Meaning, if it goes over 20-25 minutes, I'm not going to worry about it. Its far more important to me that my client is happy and feeling good. There is also shower and dressing and saying good-bye time after this, so that time adds up.

 

On the other hand, I've had a number of guys manipulate extra time after a generous runover and I've given the universal "Let's take a shower" signal that things are over by saying "oh just a few more minutes..." taking a whole lot more time. You want to make them happy, but you also know they have no intention of paying for the extra time. As a businessperson what do you do? Its an intimate service so you don't want them feeling rejected since it can feel pretty hurtful to them, but then again you don't want to feel used and disrespected for your time either.

 

On the matter of negotiating fees. I'm firmly against nogotiating fees at all. I charge $200 in and $220 out local with additional hours at $125. I don't budge from that for the simple reason that I feel it sends the wrong message. Every time in the early years I negotiated on fees the guy has taken that as license to negotiate my other non-negotiables like whether I was a top or safe sex or some other such thing. I do what I say I'm going to do, do it very well, and expect to get paid what I ask.

 

On the matter of charging too much at the $200 an hour rate. I used to charge much less in the early years and I got fewer and less respectful clients. Raising my rates was the best thing I ever did for myself. I get much classier clients and they treat me much better. They are less jaded and certainly much more fun. I suspect guys who pay less are used to being jacked around by hustlers and no amount of being nice to them is going to stop them from bleeding that bitterness onto you. I'm sorry for that, but I don't want to pick up their resentments and bleed them onto my good clients either. Its a vicious circle and higher rates keep me out of it completely.

 

I've found that every guy that offers a service in massage and escort pretty much takes a different tack on things and the real trick is finding the people that attract you and meet your expectations as far as boundaries. I try to make everything clear in my webpage so there are no misunderstandings. I think things have evolved a whole lot in this industry in the past five years I've been working it and a huge amount of credit for that belongs to HooBoy and the reviews. I applaud what he's done for both sides of the fence. I've also found he reviews on here to be dead on accurate for the guys I've done doubles with. There are a few guys I know by reputation only that I have suspicions write their own content, but its not a perfect industy yet so buyer beware.

 

Good luck all. Sorry for the novel