Denise will force JT to pay back Gaiety customers he ripped off!

[Guest CZ]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

Hey, you two (Redi4 & Assm), why are you in a challenge/retort mode anyway?

 

Frankly, it's only because BOTH of you are so vague & coy about what you expect/do in your respective scenes that there seems to be a 'customer satisfaction' disagreement between you in evaluating these Gaiety guys.

 

Unless I'm mistaken (after more than two years of reading his posts both here & on muscleservice.com), Assmaster is first & foremost a dedicated rimmer. (See my earlier post.) That's why, though disappointed that JT doesn't like having his dick sucked, he can have a great time with him anyway. (After all, how 'reciprocal' does an escort have to be to let someone pleasure his backside?) Str8 bodybuilders, whether from the Gaiety or elsewhere, tend to fit right in with this idea of an exciting & satisfying scene. So it's not magic or drugs or anything but mutually shared self-interest that makes things click between Assmaster & these guys.

 

Redi4, on the other hand, has a long history of negative comment about Gaiety guys (particularly the Canadians), most of it based on the conviction that they 'pretend' to be gay or gay-friendly in negotiating the scene, only to renege on what he feels they 'agreed to' as soon as the up-front money has changed hands in the hotel room. Without being able to prove it, I can only surmise Redi4 actually wants a fairly conventional gay sexual encounter, ranging from kissing & cuddling through more emphatic gestures of 'reciprocal' sex (maybe even sucking), and, having failed to spell this out to the escort, gets upset when he won't go along with it. So it's not for want of magic or drugs that Redi has a lousy time--it's for want of absolute candor.

 

Now if I'm wrong about either or both of you guys, here's your chance to make the whole thing perfectly clear--if not to the escorts, at least to us.

[Guest jizzdepapi]

a very tired Gaiety dancer! PIC

 

Will you boys please keep it down? If I show up with circles under my eyes once more, Denise said I have to give it all back. Omigod, did someone say fluffy pillows?

 

http://www.michelle7.com/galleries-male/dunn/images/013_Mark_Dunn__Protection.jpg

[Guest NYGuy]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

Assmaster, do yourself a favor and read the message you’re responding to fully before jumping on the keyboard with your response. At risk of stating the obvious, yes all Gaiety dancers are on a mission to make as much money as possible (duh!), but my point is the means someone like JT uses to attain that goal, which borders on the criminal. Similarly, and as you eloquently put it, yes anybody can be an asshole at some point in time under certain circumstances, but that IS NOT a justification for someone who commits a mugging, which is basically what JT did. It’s ridiculously simplistic to equate JT’s attitude towards Gaiety’s customers with other dancers who “over-promise and under-perform” and make it sound as if incidents like the one I had with him are common place. Thank God that THIS IS NOT TRUE!

 

If this psychopath indeed has a different attitude in Toronto and the details of your encounter with him are true (that a BIG if!), then it only goes to prove that he’s a genuine hustler who changes his attitude depending on the circumstances (i.e. how disparate he is for money). That might make sense since –as per other posters messages in different threads- he is much less popular in Remington’s than he is in the Gaiety due to the bad reputation he has there (go figure!), so he needs to work a bit harder there.

 

And, BTW, I’m not posting whatever happens with Denise for your entertainment. If you’re looking for entertainment, go and get yourself “serviced” by someone like JT who merely allows you to do little more than gaze upon his butt up close, if that’s what get off on, and pray it’s not one of the days he’s being an “asshole”!

 

CZ, what you said makes perfect sense if the situation on hand was that of a frustrated customer who didn’t get his money’s worth, though the chances of expectations outstripping performance for a Gaiety customer are pretty slim since most customers agree with dancers on what they want beforehand (that of course, provided the dancer is honest enough to follow through with what was agreed upon!). I don’t know about ready4boi experience(s), but as far as JT is concerned, the situation here is that of a dancer who promises everything and then turns into a cold-blooded thief who just wants your money and wants you out of his room once you’re behind closed doors. I hope you appreciate the difference.

[ready4boi]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

CZ,

 

My problem with assmaster is that he claims how he manages to find satisfaction with a lot of the hustlers. Considering what assmaster is into, he obviously is more easily satisfied than most of us who want the real deal when it comes to our dollar. I have had countless boys blatantly lie to me with lines like "I do everything..." to "i like to give head..." only to have the mood drastically change once we get back to their room. In this case of JT, he is taking the most aggressive approach in these tired tactics just like the infamous Kirk. That's not to say I haven't had a great experience here and there with an escort from The Gaiety who did what he said he would. For various factors which have been the subject of endless debate on this site, truly satisfying positive experiences with a lot of the gaiety boys are few and far between. The Gaiety boys rarely deliver compared to escorts I have hired from other sources. But when it comes to astute sociopaths like JT and Kirk, that is the biggest problem and what this thread is addressing here. Hustlers like JT and Kirk create a lot of problems and shouldn't be welcome in such a venue as The Gaiety. Denise doesn't seem to be sensitive to that fact, and in my experiences, she simply wants to run the place, make her money, and not be bothered with such matters. It really makes it frustrating to deal with her because of it but that's a separate issue. All I have found that works is warning as many people as you can after having a really bad experience with one of them.

[Guest CZ]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

Readi, I understand where you & NYGuy are coming from, honest. But I still sense that neither of you understands what Assmaster is all about. In your post, Readi, you seemed to be saying 'well, if Assmaster is willing to settle for so LITTLE, whereas I want FULL value for my buck, naturally he can declare himself satisfied!' Not quite. Assmaster isn't settling for less; he's getting exactly what he wants (even if he doesn't tell us exactly what that is), and so he IS getting full value for his buck. He's perfectly content that his playmate would rather go with girls, doesn't want to (and probably won't) reciprocate in gay sex, and is basically tolerating getting pleasured by a man because he's getting paid to do it. (However, I do suspect that A is persuaded that thanks to his masterly technique, the kid is enjoying it a lot more than he'll let on. But that's a whole 'nother thread!)

 

As I already opined, you and (I presume) NYGuy want a lot more than that from these guys--even though you know they're straight (or straight enough to get away with saying they are). And therein lies a good deal of the problem. If you tell me that you are absolutely up front & explicit in laying out your expectations in unmistakable terms, and that the kid, after agreeing to meet those terms, defrauds you--well, then, I say you ought to holler bloody murder, and indeed let Denise know (in brief but potent terms) that the kid is bad news. That's how Kirk finally got his comeuppance, & any others of his ilk deserve no less. And what about JT? Does he belong in that same rogues gallery? Who knows? Not that I doubt one word of NYGuy's account of things, or the sincerity of his grievance. . .

 

Finally, I have to empathize a bit with Readi on this: there's something off-putting about Assmaster's seeming smugness every time he tells us how famously he gets on with some otherwise 'difficult' or willful beauty. He seems to feel (perhaps rightly) that he has tamed the kid with his tongue, that he has put him in touch with his own asshole for the first time in his life--Assmaster as pedagogue--and if that shared ecstasy didn't make the whole thing worth it, nothing could.

 

Not exactly Readi or NYGuy's scene, I think. It's apples and oranges, really.

[ready4boi]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

What it comes down to is what pushes one's button. I want to make it clear I don't have prejudice towards straight and bi men who escort. I have just found my experiences have been most satisfying with gay escorts who are totally comfortable and secure with themselves sexually. That's just me but I know many others who like to pay for escorts share my experience. I just feel assmaster is in the monority in that way cause he has no problem paying these hustler types and so his opinion doesn't always apply to a lot of these threads. I do find it very odd he would turn around and give props to those with the worst reviews. For example, Tony Pitt was a straight Playgirl centerfold who had horrible reviews and the consensus on him was very negative. Assmaster then says how great a time he had with the guy. I have had escorts from the gaiety lie and claim to be gay and bisexual just to make a deal and then behind closed doors it was a completely different story. As I said the dynamics at the gaiety enable these guys to more times than not get away with that game.

[Guest CZ]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

I'm afraid that Readi & I are still not on the same page with regard to this topic.

 

As Readi just pointed out, Assmaster may be (probably is) part of a minority of clients who likes his escorts straight, & has fun with them in large part BECAUSE they are. But in adding that he has had more satisfactory times with escorts who are gay (and 'more secure in their own sexuality'--as if a str8 escorts couldn't possibly be secure in theirs!), Readi is now glossing over two important factors.

 

First, instead of saying (with great specificity) that he wants an escort to kiss, cuddle & suck cock (i.e. be gay or give a flawless imitation of same), R says merely that he has had more 'satisfactory' experiences with such guys. Well, (from his point of view), of course. . . But since he shows such great circumspection in admitting just what it is he wants when discussing the matter with US, one has to wonder if he really make his desires absolutely plain to the Gaiety guys--who, as he & everyone else well knows--are much more likely to be just plain str8 than anything else? As a member of what he declares to be the majority wing of the client population, could he perhaps be taking too much for granted in concluding that these str8 boys have 'agreed' to accomodate his unspoken wishes?

 

(Getting back to the true topic here, I'm assuming that NYGuy was far more specific--if not downright graphic--than Readi has been so far with us, when making his wishes clear to JT.)

 

The other factor Readi seems to gloss over is that, even if Assmaster IS part of a minority (clients who look for good old- fashioned trade, and not the clone next door), that minority has just as much right as the majority in seeking out their pleasures and letting us know (even triumphantly) when they have found them. However, I admit that Assmaster's too-gleeful way of doing this seems more concerned with putting down the disappointed client than in pointing out that difference-in-expectation is the key to the apparent discrepancy in how the minority rates what the majority may deplore.

[ready4boi]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

CZ,

 

Yea I guess we aren't on the same page. I personally prefer escorts who are totally comfortable engaging in homosexual acts. Therefore it is no mystery that escorts who happen to be homosexual naturally work best for me and my needs because they are not 'clones' as you put it or trade. The whole 'clone' theory that one can be a pseudo-homosexual is a whole separate thread I'm not even getting into. Personally I can tell the difference in the bedroom. I've had the most negative and disappointing experiences with escorts from the gaiety because i've had a few try to convince me they were comfortable with gay sex enough to kiss, suck, and blah blah blah. I wasn't even pressing the sexual preference issue. I'd simply ask what the guy was capable of. Then we get to the hotel room and the mood became strictly about how little the escort could get away with doing to get his money regardless of what was discussed prior. All of the sudden it was like short term memory loss and by that time clothes were off and there was no going back. To me that is a waste of my time and money. If an escort I met another way lied to me the way many of the gaiety escorts have i'd demand my money back or kick them out of my room. It doesn't work the same way at the gaiety. With the gaiety you are going on a 'private' as they call it when it's more like a head game. In cases of hustlers like this JT, the game is aggressive and more like literally being mugged. That's why I totally understand how the person who left this thread must've felt. My point is assmaster has no problem paying these types who are trade or 'clones' but the person who started this thread obviously wasn't looking for that.

[Guest assmaster]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

As I think I have said on this site before...I am ONLY interested in straight guys...or at least very straight acting guys.....and my favorite pastime is introducing them to their prostate.........so as you can imagine kissing, cuddling and the like is not my bag......and certainly not theirs.

I guess maybe I had all the gay boys that I wanted when I was younger and prettier......and now they bore me....in bed, anyway.

My idea of a perfect relationship is simple and quick

45 MINUTES

15 minutes of intro

15 minutes of "doing it"

and

15 minutes of cool down and clean up......and the payoff.

Simple, efficient and in the long run cheaper than hanging around waiting for some young thing to go home with me....which ain't likely gonna happen.......and straight young men NEVER.

At my stage in life I don't have too much time to waste.

BTW.......

I always treat my boys very well and as far as I know I am quite well respected as a "john"........of course I realize that it's my wallet that some of them respect....... however, many of them over the years have become friends........I was even invited to the wedding of one of them....and I am Godfather to another's baby boy..........named after me.....( imagine naming a baby assmaster )

[Guest CZ]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

Okay, I'm glad to see that I didn't misrepresent Assmaster's MO, beyond (perhaps) omitting mention of, shall we say, the digital side of his tutoring technique.

 

But I can tell that Readi & I aren't likely to reach a meeting of the minds on this one. For starters, he has now revised the bit about preferring guys who are "comfortable with their own sexuality" to "comfortable with homosexuality." That's quite a change of wording, wouldn't you say? Another impediment to perfect accord is our wildly different meanings for the word 'clone.' When I said "the clone next door," I was holding back from what I really wanted to say ("the girl next door") because I knew it would elicit howls of rage from many here. All I meant was that Assmaster wasn't interested in escorts who were gay.

 

"Clone" wasn't a very good substitute, I admit. However, it DOES (or did) mean a gay guy, particularly one who invests in all the conventional trappings of coming across macho. But this is obviously not Readi's intended meaning, so there's no way of going forward on that part of this exchange.

 

I have to say, though, that it's really what R has finally leveled about in his attitude toward Gaiety boys that makes agreement between us impossible. Unless I've misunderstood him, he's willing to put up with their being straight as long as they're willing to try to act gay (! ! !). Why anyone would want to be kissed (and a lot more!) by a guy who is personally repelled by having to do so (even for money) is simply beyond me. Could anyone find sexual pleasure in that? And if that's the kind of action you want, well, then, why not just stick to gay guys in the first place?

 

So maybe it all comes back to my original point. If what you want is totally unrealistic in the first place, you have to be ready for big disappointments.

 

This doesn't, however, exonerate any straight Gaiety dancer from promising to play along with the client's unrealistic wishes and then welching on what he'd agreed to do.

 

So at least that's one thing we ALL agree on.

[ready4boi]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

I am not going into details about my disastrous experiences with escorts from the gaiety cause clearly cz and assmaster are siding with the 'straight' boys. I don't care if assmaster only prefers straight escorts and how he's had so much fun with them. This about gay-for-pay hustlers like JT ripping off people like me and the person who posted this thread. We want more for our dollar in terms of sexual activity. I am beginning to wonder if cz has even been to the gaiety and dealt with the games the gaiety boys play to get their money. As I have said that's not to say all of them are like that, but most of the ones I've dealt with have been very disappointing compared to escorts I've hire outside of The Gaiety. That has been my experience and the experience of many other consummate johns. The gaiety has now become more about the boys wanting you to pay for how their bodies look. In my opinion, it's more like the female straight strip clubs in that respect, a male version of Scores. For those of us who've been around long enough the gaiety was different back in the older days when it was more about what the boys would do sexually for the money. It's a change that while it has made the show prettier to watch it has made the exchange between dancers and customers uglier. Incidents like this one with this JT hustler are a good example of that.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

A few comments...

 

First...

 

"imagine naming a baby assmaster"

 

ROTFL... this is only one of several reasons that this single post made this thread -- for me.

 

I have been to the Gaiety twice and not engaged a dancer for a private, although I did find some very tempting. The reason -- I read the reviews... and if one thing is clear it is that the overwhelming majority of these guys are straight and are looking to maximize their earnings with minimum compromise of their personal principles -- at least of a sexual nature. And the reviews are full of stories of unkept promises. These disappointments most often concern kissing and mutual oral -- I can't even imagine someone bringing up bottoming with the straight types.

 

On the other hand those who seem into trade and generally satisified with one-sided relationships seem to be more satisified -- good for them. And they shouldn't be taken to task because their taste fits the available market.

 

There is a lesson here... make sure where you shop has the particular goods (and services) your are interested in purchasing. And make sure that the dancers know that their fee will be prorated according to how well they live up to their bargain including the quality of services they provide and that payment will be made afterward not before. And if you are not prepared to do this then expect that you may ger ripped off.

 

Things maybe different now than they were in the past, I cannot speak to that. But if they are then much of the change probably lies with the customers. If they are unwilling to accept unsatisifactory service they won't get it. This means not hiring if you don't get satisfaction and making sure others know of the dissatisifaction. These guys won't come just to dance if they don't make money on privates -- at least that is my suppostion. So there must be many clients willing to settle for less or unwilling to share feedback among with each other about what and who is acceptable.

 

The best thing about this thread is the publicity that JT had recieved. At the very least, the client should have an indication if there is a chance JT will satisfy the client's taste. Beyond that clients will be notified that JT may be a safety issue in some circmustances.

[Guest NYGuy]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

CZ, to clear things out once and for all and to avoid theorizing this issue to death, I want to highlight the following:

 

-I agreed with JT on everything before we had the private (the details of the agreement are a side-issue, let’s just say that I was OK with it).

 

-What happened afterwards wasn’t him not living up to the agreement or to my expectations or anything like that, but rather a PREMEDITATED THEFT! We didn’t even touch each other, and yet, in a (pretend?) fit of rage, he demanded the money and threw me out of the room. I can understand if a dancer over-promises to get the client to take him for a private (it happened to me before, within acceptable limits), but this IS NOT the case here.

 

-As for gay vs. straight escorts, I’ve always gone for straight acting escorts. Whether they are actually gay or not is a moot point and something the customer shouldn’t worry about since an escort knows what goes on in the escort scene. So, if he’s comfortable calling himself an escort, this implicitly means that he agrees to provide sexual service to another man, the extent of which is –in most cases- agreed upon beforehand or advertised by the escort himself. Actually, a straight escort once argued (with some conviction) that escorting is easier if you’re straight since you wouldn’t be repulsed by an ugly customer as much as a gay escort would. And make no mistake, most escorts –gay or not- aren’t crazy about what they are doing anyway and think of it as “job”.

 

-My only beef with assmaster’s posting is the insinuation that JT is “decent” escort, thus compromising the credibility of my posting. But the more I read of assmaster’s messages, the more I realize that he’s a happy-go-lucky kind of man, who settles for less than most customers would. Still, the notion that JT let him “play” with his ass and sported a hard on is hard to believe. Maybe he REALLY needed the money that night. And was on viagra..!

 

-Right on, ready4boi! Personally, I’ll stop hiring those Gaiety dancers in the future, especially since NYC is choke-full of gorgeous escorts who really put the customer’s satisfaction at heart. The Gaiety’s sole advantage is the convenience of having the chance to see and talk to the guy you like before deciding on a private. But, with websites like this one reviewing escorts, and with hustlers like JT left free to prey on unsuspecting Gaiety customers, this advantage is disappearing fast. It’s just not worth the gamble…

[marc anthony]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

Well... I tried my best to stay out of this one, but now I just can't resist! I agree with just about everything that has been said on this thread, and actually no one is "right" or "wrong", just different. I have been to the Gaiety, and there are VERY beautiful boys there. Many of them are straight, and many are trying to make money as quickly and "painlessly" as possible. A few are really fun to be with. Like with all other places, some of them are really horrible people, and may try to rip you off in ways that are totally unacceptable. Most of them, also, even though claiming to be straight, have enough sexual curiosity (otherwise it would hard to dance night after night in front of a bunch of horny men) to appreciate some assplay (hence the assmaster's success rate). Being an assman myself, I know that very beautiful straight Gaiety boys have let me do almost anything to their ass short of fucking it when approached in the right way. For me, I am very selective about who I hire out of the Gaiety. First, they must be VERY cute. Second, they must be personable in the lounge ( I really think you can read most of the ones that will rip you off if you talk with them for a while). Third, I keep my expectations low... you are not usually going to get the same experience with a Gaiety dancer as you would a quality escort. Finally, I tell them exactly what I am going to ask them to do, and what I will pay them for doing it. By keeping to this very simple system, my occasional trips to NYC have always included a stop at the Gaiety for a sampling of eye candy, and an occasional private which has been almost always fun and rewarding. I do agree that if someone was a rip-off artist, Denise should be made aware. Keeping her customers happy is what makes that place tick!

[Guest CZ]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

I think Marc Anthony has put things into perspective very nicely.

 

And NYGuy has succeeded in bringing the thread back to the original focus--i.e. his contention that JT didn't merely wriggle out of sexual activity he'd agreed to, but 'staged' a heated argument which (he felt) entitled him to pocket the entire fee without having done anything--and managed this by threatening tactics that amount to nothing less than extortion. (Did I summarize that correctly, NYGuy?)

 

Readi4boi, with his long-held bitterness toward Gaiety guys in general, joined the thread mostly to say (again) oh, those dancers are ruthlessly calculating liars & thieves & will try to take you every time!

 

Since he has rebuffed all notions that he himself caused some of his past problems--by (l) going with a guy he knows to be straight & expecting to have truly reciprocal sex with him, and (2) taking too much for granted in what an obviously straight escort says he'll do with another guy--then I can only conclude that he has fallen victim to extremely bad luck over an extended period of time.

 

(Speaking of time--and to set Readi's doubts about my credentials to rest--I've been going to the Gaiety for nearly 20 years, and I've happily played with many, many of the dancers who've appeared there, lots of them Canadians. So it stands to reason that, unless Readi is a masochist, I must have had far more direct experience with these guys than he has.)

 

Again, I have to express wonderment that anyone would want to exact from another human being sexual behavior that is truly repugnant to him--and then take pleasure in such an encounter. But that seems to be Readi's grim & implacable stand, his reasoning being that if you're a sex partner for hire you should be prepared to do whatever the client is paying you for. While I realize that this is actually a given for most people here, my own view of paying for sex is somewhat different.

 

Like Assmaster & Marc A, my taste is for straight guys; so, while I find immense pleasure in having sex with them, the activity involved actually centers on the pleasure I can give them, not things they're 'willing' to do with me. Having idealized their virility and masculine beauty in the first place, I then pay appropriate homage to it. And so, in the encounter, their pleasure is my pleasure.

 

Now I'm being as honest & upfront here as I can be, just as I am when hiring one of these guys. But I really have to wonder about what seem to me the built-in contradictions & deliberate self-deceptions that pervade the very different attitude of clients like Readi & NYGuy.

 

One hallmark of that attitude is the very curious adjective, "straight-acting." When a gay guy pays a straight guy to have some facsimile of reciprocal sex with him, claiming he actually prefers straight guys--or "straight-acting" guys--I feel that self-deception is very much at work. And if not self-deception, at least an oddly superficial approach to sex.

 

"Straight-ACTING"? What the hell does that mean? That 'acting' straight is somehow equivalent to BEING straight? And does it further imply that "gay-acting" is a viable and equally desirable option for an escort? Just think about that a little.

[ready4boi]

RE: Denise-and JT

 

CZ,

 

Why in the world would you want to pay someone to give them sexual pleasure especially when you know they're not even gay? It personally makes no sense to me and seems completely crazy. I am not going to beat a dead horse and go over the same things I've already mentioned. Those of us who like The Gaiety and the fun we've had there keep going back despite the negative side of it. For a lot of us we also want our privacy. I'm one of those people so I think we often we do let ourselves get taken advantage of as a result. For some going there is like their own little dirty secret so of course they're not going to say anything. That's also partly where some of the problem lies. Hopefully this site will help. I'd like to think it has. The infamous Kirk/Voltaire is now history and so let's all keep our fingers crossed this JT will go away too.