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Will
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The thread that Cougar started about an escort who didn't show up for a trip after 19 dates has stimulated a lot of interesting response. Cougar's expectations of the escort -- or other posters' assumptions about those expectations -- is a theme that runs through the whole thread. Some people reminded Cougar that an escort is an escort, not a boyfriend; some observed that clients should not be surprised when escorts blow them off, regardless of past history or the amount of money and trouble that the client has lavished on setting up a trip. The default position seems to be that a client is foolish to expect an escort to be morally responsible to him in any way. After all, the argument seems to run, you're paying him for sex not for consideration.

 

I think that attitude is unfair to clients and it's also unfair to escorts. What's the difference between the client of an escort and the client of, say, a tour-guide when either the escort or the tour-guide fails to show up, fails to notify the client ahead of time, fails to explain or even to apologize, and fails to offer even verbal recompense for the client's disappointment and expense? Why shouldn't clients hold escorts to their promise just as much as they hold anybody else whose expensive time they pay for?

 

As for escorts, why shouldn't they conduct their business with responsibility, respect, and honor? Why should clients excuse inexcusable behavior because, after all, an escort is "just" an escort?

 

There's something wrong with our ethics when we blame a client like Cougar for being worried, pissed-off, or otherwise upset when someone who had seemed to be honorable turns out not to be. And there's something wrong with our ethics when we protect this kind of egregious behavior by tut-tutting about escorts' being, well, not quite like everybody else.

 

And there's something wrong with a "review" board if Cougar can't even name the escort who stood him up, ripped him off -- whatever you want to call it -- in response to his being trusting and generous.

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The default position seems to be that a

>client is foolish to expect an escort to be morally

>responsible to him in any way. After all, the argument seems

>to run, you're paying him for sex not for consideration.

>

>As for escorts, why shouldn't they conduct their business with

>responsibility, respect, and honor? Why should clients excuse

>inexcusable behavior because, after all, an escort is "just"

>an escort?

 

There's something wrong with our ethics when we blame a client

>like Cougar for being worried, pissed-off, or otherwise upset

>when someone who had seemed to be honorable turns out not to

>be. And there's something wrong with our ethics when we

>protect this kind of egregious behavior by tut-tutting about

>escorts' being, well, not quite like everybody else.

 

After reading your reaction, I went back and reread the whole thread, Will. You are usually one of the posters who makes great sense and has great insight. And I agree with all the points you make above. But I am a bit puzzled of how you got that reaction from thread that you cite.

 

I can't find a single post in there that makes the implications that you are rightfully disdaining.

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Just as a comment, as a client, I can honestly say if I had a good rapport with an escort and had seen him multiple times, I would be pretty disappointed and also hurt if he just disappeared or ignored me suddenly. A one-timer, no, but if I felt I really had a connection with someone (which is the only case I'd probably be a regular client), it would hurt if things changed suddenly and there wasn't any closure. While I know escorting is technically a business transaction, I would certainly hope the escort also sees me as a person with feelings and respect me as such...just as I feel it's my responsibility to do the same for him. Part of that responsibility to me would be at least a note if something comes up (like quitting escorting or something wrong with the arrangments, etc.). If it's a tragedy, of course, it might take significantly more time as that's the last thing on the escort's mind obviously, but I still think it's probably warranted eventually just out of politeness. In cougar's case, I feel bad and hope he hears from him. I'd probably be a bit worried about the escort if that happened to me too (as well as concerned maybe he just didn't want to contact me anymore for some reason).

 

That all said (and not a reflection on anybody in particular by the way - just a general comment), I do think it's important for clients NOT to get too emotionally wrapped up in escorts, not just for this reason, but for a variety of reasons. I can see how this could EASILY happen (after all, you generally want to spend time with an escort BECAUSE you're attracted to them). I'm sure it still hurts when a favorite escort quits, etc., but putting things in perspective can at least make it LESS painful and expected. And a note from them saying goodbye would help even further.

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Guest Tampa Yankee

>Just as a comment, as a client, I can honestly say if I had a

>good rapport with an escort and had seen him multiple times, I

>would be pretty disappointed and also hurt if he just

>disappeared or ignored me suddenly. A one-timer, no, but if I

>felt I really had a connection with someone (which is the only

>case I'd probably be a regular client), it would hurt if

>things changed suddenly and there wasn't any closure.

 

Been there, done that, it did.

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>As for escorts, why shouldn't they conduct their business with

>responsibility, respect, and honor? Why should clients excuse

>inexcusable behavior because, after all, an escort is "just"

>an escort?

 

I think "inexcusable behavior" should NOT be overlooked, that is why I advocate clients write reviews, good or bad, but there is a real reluctance by many to write Bad reviews including NO Shows by an Escort. At the same time the client needs to be fair to the Escort. I'm not saying give him the benefit of the doubt all the time, but to give him time for a reasonable explanation. If I get bad service anywhere I am more likely to overlook it if I know there is a logical reason. In Cougar's case, I'd still suggest a review if he doesn't get a reasonable explanation.

 

>There's something wrong with our ethics when we blame a client

>like Cougar for being worried, pissed-off, or otherwise upset

>when someone who had seemed to be honorable turns out not to

>be. And there's something wrong with our ethics when we

>protect this kind of egregious behavior by tut-tutting about

>escorts' being, well, not quite like everybody else.

 

Since Cougar's been with this guy 19 times I can understand why he feels the way he does. It's not like someone he has never met. That is what makes the No Show sort of strange and maybe even more dishonorable than a No Show with someone he had never met. You never really expect that kind of behavior from someone you have developed a trust in. In this case, if no logical explanation comes forth, then this guy was not just a No Show but he betrayed that trust that the client had developed in him.

 

>And there's something wrong with a "review" board if Cougar

>can't even name the escort who stood him up, ripped him off --

>whatever you want to call it -- in response to his being

>trusting and generous.

 

He can always name him if he writes a review.

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When a client has seen an escort 19 times, then the situation of a no-show is indeed different. Over 19 visits a lot of stuff can get bottled up and perhaps the escort feels that he has no avenue to straighten this out with the client. A long trip together may be unsettling for the escort, but he didn't want to say no. However, he may have just reached a point where he felt that the client was too involved with him and that the trip had become a bad idea.

Clearly it would have been best to tell this to the client, but some people just avoid unpleasant situations like that by dropping communication altogether.

 

How can we offer a fair assessment without the escort's input on something where the relationship has gone on for awhile?

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Thank you Will.....

This is Cougar, the client who was left standing alone in a different city by the escort I had seen 19 times since January this year. Your insight into what I have been feeling the past few days is right on target. Also, you have brought to light how severe of a no show this really is. When this extreme no show happened, I was first worried and sad, however, those feelings are sliding away and beginning to turn into a more negative feeling. The total lake of respect for me as someone with feelings and a client who has been very generous with this escort has been tough. The other poster is correct, a no show is one thing, but this one cuts the cake.

It is now Wednesday morning, I still haven't had a return call or an e-mail from the escort, my last call to him was Sunday afternoon. I have plans to write the first and only e-mail to him today after work or tomorrow. I will send just one e-mail to him, giving me comfort in knowing I have done everything possible to reach him. I think my e-mail will be short and sweet, regardless of how I say it; it will be a tough one to write, and then I will just have to wait and see if I get a response from him. I have elected to not name the escort here on this board yet, giving him the benefit of the doubt. However, I will post a review soon and also name him here, when I am feel that he has had plenty of time to contact me. But for most people, he should have called me just as soon as he knew he was going to be a no show. I guess I now how how much interest he took in me as a client. Figure it out yourself...19 dates since January $200 a date.....wish I could comand money like that!

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>The default position seems to be that a

>client is foolish to expect an escort to be morally

>responsible to him in any way.

i don't think anyone said that. many of us have simply pointed out that it might be a bad idea to hold his breath for it.

>Why shouldn't clients

>hold escorts to their promise just as much as they hold

>anybody else whose expensive time they pay for?

in a perfect world, it would be simple. last time i checked, this wasn't such a perfect world, though.

>As for escorts, why shouldn't they conduct their business with

>responsibility, respect, and honor? Why should clients excuse

>inexcusable behavior because, after all, an escort is "just"

>an escort?

who suggested that? yes, escorts should be upstanding. yes, clients should expect that. but, given the situation at hand, there is no sense crying if it doesn't happen.

>There's something wrong with our ethics when we blame a client

>like Cougar for being worried, pissed-off, or otherwise upset

much of the world might think there's something ethically wrong with hiring escorts.

>when someone who had seemed to be honorable turns out not to

>be.

ahhh. the honourable profession. wait... that's the OLDEST profession; i always mix the two.

>And there's something wrong with our ethics when we

>protect this kind of egregious behavior

there's no protection involved. there just isn't much that can be done--other than exposing the bad ones.

>And there's something wrong with a "review" board if Cougar

>can't even name the escort who stood him up, ripped him off --

>whatever you want to call it -- in response to his being

>trusting and generous.

he can. he's just not stooping to the level you've DECRIED by naming him too soon. why is your vitriol aimed only at escorts? jilted a few thousand times? the fact is, it is POSSIBLE that something has happened that has prevented the escort from contacting the guy. if that's the case, the client would be no better than the horrid escorts you blame if he ran the guy down publicly & harmed his business. give it some time. if he feels that he should expose the escort, he will.

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>Why shouldn't clients

>hold escorts to their promise just as much as they hold

>anybody else whose expensive time they pay for?

 

>As for escorts, why shouldn't they conduct their business with

>responsibility, respect, and honor? Why should clients excuse

>inexcusable behavior because, after all, an escort is "just"

>an escort?

 

>There's something wrong with our ethics when we blame a client

>like Cougar for being worried, pissed-off, or otherwise upset

>when someone who had seemed to be honorable turns out not to

>be. And there's something wrong with our ethics when we

>protect this kind of egregious behavior by tut-tutting about

>escorts' being, well, not quite like everybody else.

 

The fact you're leaving out of your analysis is that prostitution is a criminal enterprise, not a legitimate business like that of "anybody else whose expensive time they pay for." Prostitution is an underground, illegal activity, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to expect those who engage in it to behave exactly like people in other businesses. The very fact that they're prostitutes shows that they are willing to cross certain legal and moral lines in order to get what they want. The only "blame" that attaches to Cougar is that he seems to have forgotten that fact.

 

I realize that some of the clients who post here like to pretend that prostitution is a normal business and one should therefore have the same expectations in dealing with prostitutes as in dealing with people in any other trade. That is merely a fantasy, however, and you are not doing anyone a kindness by encouraging him to indulge in it.

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>The fact you're leaving out of your analysis is that

>prostitution is a criminal enterprise, not a legitimate

>business like that of "anybody else whose expensive time they

>pay for." Prostitution is an underground, illegal activity,

>and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to expect those who

>engage in it to behave exactly like people in other

>businesses. The very fact that they're prostitutes shows that

>they are willing to cross certain legal and moral lines in

>order to get what they want. The only "blame" that attaches

>to Cougar is that he seems to have forgotten that fact.

>

>I realize that some of the clients who post here like to

>pretend that prostitution is a normal business and one should

>therefore have the same expectations in dealing with

>prostitutes as in dealing with people in any other trade.

>That is merely a fantasy, however, and you are not doing

>anyone a kindness by encouraging him to indulge in it.

 

You make a good point here - the fact that escorting is technically illegal DOES play into this and affect expectations somewhat in my opinion.

 

However, I still DO firmly believe there are escorts out there who legitimately care about their clients feelings, and then there are those who don't (and everything in between). Participating in one illegal activity and crossing a "moral line" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean that same person is willing to cross other unrelated (or not directly related anyways) moral lines.

 

For example, once I paid in full in advance for a transaction with an escort (probably a naive move, but it did work in this case, and it was the only way to set things up). He could have EASILY blown me off and scammed me, and I would have had no legal recourse in the matter AT ALL (I could have posted a negative review here, but that's about it). However, he showed up and everything went as planned. Just because he was escorting did not mean he was also willing to scam people, etc. He's an honest guy who lives up to his promises and seems to legitimately care about his client's feelings.

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so it is about the money you spent, not the emotions that have been bruised?

 

if he was in a severe accident, or something tragic happened to his life, it may well take him quite some time to get in touch with you. i'd urge you to wait 2 weeks.

 

and if you want a responce, don't let this newfound anger enter your email. express concern.

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>You make a good point here - the fact that escorting is

>technically illegal DOES play into this and affect

>expectations somewhat in my opinion.

 

 

What does "technically illegal" mean? Paying someone to have sex with you is a crime in almost every part of this country, period.

 

>Participating in one illegal activity and crossing a "moral

>line" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean that same person

>is willing to cross other unrelated (or not directly related

>anyways) moral lines.

 

Necessarily? No, but it's mighty useful in predicting behavior. That was part of the foundation for Giuliani and Bratton's program for cleaning up street crime in New York -- target people who are involved in relatively minor illegal activities and you will find that a significant percentage of them are also involved in not-so-minor illegal activities. It worked, too.

 

>For example, once I paid in full in advance for a transaction

>with an escort (probably a naive move, but it did work in this

>case,

 

Well, that's peachy. Now tell us: are you going to pay in advance in every single case from now on? If not, why not? Would it be because you think it likely you would be ripped off by some of the people you pay?

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>>I realize that some of the clients who post here like to

>pretend that prostitution is a normal business and one should

>therefore have the same expectations in dealing with

>prostitutes as in dealing with people in any other trade.

>That is merely a fantasy, however, and you are not doing

>anyone a kindness by encouraging him to indulge in it.

>

To a certain extend I agree with that statement. For many of us that hire on a regular basis it is a normal business transaction, but not due to any Fantasy. With me it is because hiring has become such a normal part of my life it is easy to treat it as such. It is also easy to forget about the possible legalities of the business transaction. I know some will say "hiring an Escort is not illegal". But in reality if they hire the guy and he doesn't put out, a Negative Review will follow or at least a comment here. You hire an Escort you expect Sex, why try to sugar coat it. Hiring someone for sex is illegal and yes I sometimes seem to forget that.

 

From my stand point it also has to do with trying to respect the person I am hiring, and that definitely is not a fantasy for me.

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>I know some will say

>"hiring an Escort is not illegal". But in reality if they hire

>the guy and he doesn't put out, a Negative Review will follow

>or at least a comment here. You hire an Escort you expect Sex,

>why try to sugar coat it.

 

Well said.

 

>From my stand point it also has to do with trying to respect

>the person I am hiring, and that definitely is not a fantasy

>for me.

 

I see nothing wrong with treating anyone in any walk of life with respect. I do think it's a little silly to do business with people who are involved in crime and then profess to be astonished when they act unethically. It is BECAUSE they refuse to follow an ordinary code of ethics that we deal with them in the first place, remember?

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Ethan,

This isn't a money thing. It is more of a feeling of let down. I wouldn't be concerned if this was a new guy who stood me up for a first time visit to my house.

I know that no matter how you dress it, it is still a business arrangement. But remember, he and I have been together 19 times this year. After so many dates, naturally a trust and friendship had developed.

So now I am perplexed over his actions. Whatever happened, if anything, to him is pointless. He was well aware of the date for the trip and he even picked the dates out himself. At this point, I am beginning to think that he really did just stand me up. But no one deserves to be treated this way....if his boyfriend was giving him pressure...thats okay. He knows me well enough and should value our escort/client relationship well enough that he would be comfortable calling me in advance to cancel. That is what I would expect from him. Instead of disappearing and letting me start the trip and with no concern for me or my time.

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>What does "technically illegal" mean? Paying someone to have

>sex with you is a crime in almost every part of this country,

>period.

 

Relax - it was just an expression. I suppose the "technically" I put there is mostly because personally, I don't see the problem with escorting (obviously), so that was the implication. Yes, it's illegal (in all but Nevada I believe...and even there I'm not sure if it applies to the boys too - lol).

 

>>>Participating in one illegal activity and crossing a "moral

>>line" as you put it doesn't necessarily mean that same

>>person

>>is willing to cross other unrelated (or not directly related

>>anyways) moral lines.

>

>Necessarily? No, but it's mighty useful in predicting

>behavior. That was part of the foundation for Giuliani and

>Bratton's program for cleaning up street crime in New York --

>target people who are involved in relatively minor illegal

>activities and you will find that a significant percentage of

>them are also involved in not-so-minor illegal activities. It

>worked, too.

 

I'll grant that illegal activity can be useful in predicting other illegal behavior. I still maintain, however, that being an escort doesn't mean you don't care about someone else's feelings or well-being. Other people's feelings aren't a "law" so to speak. Does it make it more likely an escort will take advantage of clients over any other business transaction? I don't know the answer to that, but I don't really feel so from experience. Most of the true escorts I met have been very nice and treated me well. That said, I think there are plenty of people who advertise as escorts with the sole intent of scamming people out of their money, but I feel that's a distinction that has to be made - these are scam artists, not true escorts.

 

>>For example, once I paid in full in advance for a

>transaction

>>with an escort (probably a naive move, but it did work in

>this

>>case,

>

>Well, that's peachy. Now tell us: are you going to pay in

>advance in every single case from now on? If not, why not?

>Would it be because you think it likely you would be ripped

>off by some of the people you pay?

 

Why the sarcasm? LOL. Actually, to be honest, I decide by that on a case by case basis. I *was* ripped off once (well, at least I think so - time will tell, and that's a long story), but if communication is good and I feel someone is honest, I may sometimes arrange something like this. Someone I'd seen previously and felt they're trustworthy I also would. You never know what'll happen when giving someone the money ahead of time, but I think that's the case with virtually any transaction with an individual. I think saying that risk is much more predominant with escorting is unfair. The lack of legal recourse I'm sure makes it much easier, but that's when the scam artists I mentioned above come in in my opinion.

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If we took a poll, I believe 90%+ of those on the message center would consider escorting to be illegal in the same sense that selling certain quantities of weed is illegal. The whole premise of the argument is flawed and further inflamed by repeated use of the word prostitute.

 

Does this mean that I can not trust my local grass supplier, don't

think so. People are people, most clients can make their own judgements no matter how much you want to cite laws to further your argument.

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> I do think it's a little silly to do business

>with people who are involved in crime and then profess to be

>astonished when they act unethically. It is BECAUSE they

>refuse to follow an ordinary code of ethics that we deal with

>them in the first place, remember?

 

But aren't WE also involved in that same crime but just in a different way? So what makes us anymore "Ethical" than them? Is it also silly for the Escort to profess to be astonished if the Client acts unethically?

 

We the Clients, are no better or worse than those we hire. Mutual respect for each other should be what is expected and given by BOTH.

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>But aren't WE also involved in that same crime but just in a

>different way? So what makes us anymore "Ethical" than them?

>Is it also silly for the Escort to profess to be astonished if

>the Client acts unethically?

>

>We the Clients, are no better or worse than those we hire.

>Mutual respect for each other should be what is expected and

>given by BOTH.

 

Holy cow. NICE point. Never even thought about that!

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>But aren't WE also involved in that same crime but just in a

>different way? So what makes us anymore "Ethical" than them?

>Is it also silly for the Escort to profess to be astonished if

>the Client acts unethically?

>

>We the Clients, are no better or worse than those we hire.

>Mutual respect for each other should be what is expected and

>given by BOTH.

 

Holy cow. NICE point. Never even thought about that!

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Along the same lines, I just thought of something else. Up until not long ago, sodomy was illegal in some states. Would you use the argument back then that people who practiced sodomy are more likely to engage in other criminal behavior? Unless they somehow get a rush from breaking the law that leads to other crimes, I doubt it. While escorting is a different matter in some respects since it involves transaction of money, I think the analogy is at least useful to think about.

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You guys in here have been a blessing to me.

I am one of those guys who never posted and read the message boards daily, but never said anything. I never thought that I would be the one who would start such an intresting subject and have such GREAT responses. This is the message board at its best, I can see I am in good company.

I have to admit that he was the second escort I had ever hired and I was one of his very first clients. I think that this might be important since we were both actually new to this world. I can admit that maybe we did let this "business" relationship cross lines that probably wouldn't have been crossed by an experienced escort or a client who had been hiring for a few years. This type of "relationship" was new for both of us with limitations and unfamiliar boundaries.

However, a deal is a deal, right? I did call him three days before the trip to make sure he did have the flight info and knew the times etc. I wasn't too concerned when I didn't get a response from him, because I knew he had never let me down in the past, and I am not accustomed to being let down in ways like this by people who I consider my friends.

I did send him the first and only e-mail today after work. As I had planned, it was short and sweet. I told him that no matter how simple or complicated things might be, I hope he is comfortable enough with me to tell me what is going on. Only time will tell if he contacts me to explain what caused this to fall apart.

I hate that this happened. I hope it will not scare my respect for an escort in the future.

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