Interesting (?) Question

[Guest arbee]

STJ indicated that his new site was on-line, so I decided to give it a look.

 

Something caught my eye in his FAQ's: "My preference is WM's but I have hung out with some cool Asian & Latin guys. It's best to just ask." This raises an interesting issue:

 

As a potential client, it seems to me, I have the right to choose who I might wish to "visit" based on any criteria I devise. What gives *me* that "right?" Well, I would want to see someone who turns me on. I would not see a 3 foot tall Uzbek with more hair than a yak and a 3 inch dick 'cause it just doesn't do anything for me. (Nor would I buy an SUV 'cause it offends my social/environmental sensibilities, for that matter.)

 

As an escort, a service-oriented profession (in the fullest sense of the term), ethically, can one turn away, say, an African-American with no other "issues" than his ethnicity? Or, phrased another way, should a service provider engage in a practice, racial discrimination, given that such behavior in an open context would be illegal?

 

(BTW, this is NOT directed at STJ nor is it/should it be interpreted as a swipe at him.)

 

- arbee

 

PS: I am neither an African-American or a self-hating Uzbeki.

[DelawareGuy]

I used to have mixed opinions about this, but I have come to the conclusion that a good escort wants to provide the best service possible. If he's not attracted to certain types, then he might not be able to "give it his best". Certainly, there's something to be said for an escort who will see any client, sight unseen and with no information regarding height/weight, etc. But if your expectation is that the escort will also enjoy himself, shouldn't he be allowed to be hired by those with whom he would be attracted to?

 

When I first started hiring, my goal was getting a cute face, nice body, and big dick. Now (while those qualities are certainly favorable), I tend to re-hire the guys that I had fun with, i.e., good conversation, a few laughs, etc (in addition to a good time in bed). One of the best of those is an escort that prefers to meet only guys that he feels he can click with. Obviously, we have and I'm a happy repeat customer.

 

I'll be interested to hear other guy's opinions on this excellent question.

[OneFinger]

If you search the archives, you'll find that this was discussed in length about 12-18 months ago.

 

Although you didn't mean it as a thread against STJ, I believe the previous discussion certainly turned into a nasty thread against him. I personally appreciate that he's so honest about his preferences. I find it so much easier to decide who to hire or avoid when there is honest and accurate information.

[Guest arbee]

Sorry. I was unaware there'd been a previous thread... am sorta new here.

 

And I was unaware of any negative thread regarding STJ... my intent was not to resurrect it. (BTW, he is quite cute... too bad I'm in the northeast...)

 

Just thought it was an interesting notion to talk about.

[Funseeker 22]

Let`s not go there again. No more looping.

John is a great guy. Enuff said.:-)

[+ deej]

There've been more than one previous thread. This is one of those galvanizing often-asked questions. Please allow me to sum up the two types of responses that will appear:

 

1) If the escort will have problems performing with a certain type, it's best he state so up front, and

 

2) How DARE these whores turn down paying customers based on (race, body type, whatever)??? Don't they know who's paying?

 

There's *some* gray area in between, but very little.

 

See? I've just saved you from reading hundreds of "he said, he said" posts. You can ignore Woodlawn and Doug69 who will be all over STJ in no time. x(

 

Businesses CAN turn down customers. I just turned down (unfortunately) a rather lucrative prospect for my company yesterday. The gentleman seemed incredulous that we've never been sued, and seemed genuinely disdainful that we're not good enough to be sued. I advised him that maybe we're not the best match, and gave him the business card of one of our competitors who has been in business less than a quarter of the number of years we have and has several pending suits. He'll be happier there. (And *I'll* be happier with him there!)

 

Even a streetwalker can refuse to get in the car.

[OneFinger]

>Sorry. I was unaware there'd been a previous thread... am sorta new here.

 

Welcome to the group!! I only hope you have a thick skin, sense of humor, and can read between the lines. All are necessary attributes for success in this arena. :7

[Kippy]

John is one of the best in the business. I think it's great he's upfront and communicates well. My experience with him has been stellar. As we know from the escort business is all about "discriminating tastes"-- I don't think even a casual reference to any "legality" idea makes sense since the whole industry would find itself in legal difficulty. John's new sight is great and you won't find a better escort in or out of bed.

 

Peace,

 

Kippy

[VaHawk]

>There've been more than one previous thread. This is one of

>those galvanizing often-asked questions. Please allow me to

>sum up the two types of responses that will appear:

>

>1) If the escort will have problems performing with a certain

>type, it's best he state so up front, and

>

>2) How DARE these whores turn down paying customers based on

>(race, body type, whatever)??? Don't they know who's paying?

>

>There's *some* gray area in between, but very little.

>

>See? I've just saved you from reading hundreds of "he said, he

>said" posts. You can ignore Woodlawn and Doug69 who will be

>all over STJ in no time. x(

 

LMFAO, as nothing could sum it up better than these comments! :7

[Doug69]

>See? I've just saved you from reading hundreds of "he said, he

>said" posts. You can ignore Woodlawn and Doug69 who will be

>all over STJ in no time. x(

 

To the contrary, Deej, I actually don't care enough about STJ's NO BLACKS ALLOWED policy to comment on it. I'll let others formulate their own opinions of what they think about it (big cocks go a long way to excusing behavior which would otherwise be met with screetching condemnation).

 

But I did want to comment on your gross misstatement of the law, because I do so hate seeing people misled:

 

>Businesses CAN turn down customers. I just turned down

>(unfortunately) a rather lucrative prospect for my company

>yesterday. . . . Even a streetwalker can refuse to get in the car.

 

This is dead wrong. Businesses are treated under the law like employers. Employers can hire or fire anyone they want, EXCEPT that it is illegal to use certain attributes - such as race, age, religion, gender, etc. - in making those determiniations.

 

So, it's perfectly legal for an employer to walk up to an employee and say: "I'm firing you because we no longer want to employ people who wear white shirts" or "I'm firing you because we no longer want to employ people who have long hair" or even "I'm firing just becasue I feel like it." But it's ILLEGAL to say: "I'm firing you because we no longer want blacks to work here."

 

Similarly, a business which offers its services to the public can legally have a policy of not catering to Republicans, or not catering to people with long hair or because - to use your example - they think the person is too argumentative or just not catering to people it dislikes for whatever reason. But a business CANNOT LEGALLY have a policy of refusing to provide its services to blacks, or Muslims, etc.

 

So, to apply these principles to the world of escorting which we all love, an escort would be permitted legally to refuse to provide his services to a client on the ground, say, that the client has disgusting personal hygiene or repulsive physical characteristics (I vaguely recall hearing a story about an escort who turned a client down after meeting him on the ground that he had poor hygiene and was physically repulsive - but I can't recall now who the client was - can you help me out, Deej? Do you remember who it was?? What's the matter - does the cat have your Young - uh, I mean - tongue?).

 

BUT - an escort would violate the legal principles underlying anti-discrimination laws if, rather than a NO FILTHY CLIENTS policy, he had a NO BLACKS ALLOWED policy.

 

This isn't to say that what STJ is doing is wrong - just that your statement of the law which you invoked to defend him couldn't have been more inaccurate.

[woodlawn]

> (big cocks go a long way to excusing behavior which

>would otherwise be met with screetching condemnation).

 

True, and that is the only thing I find interesting about Small Town John's "No Blacks Allowed" policy -- the irony of seeing so many clients express sympathy for his desire to turn away clients on a purely racial basis when they condemn anyone in any other business who would turn away a customer solely because of race.

[woodlawn]

>As an escort, a service-oriented profession (in the fullest

>sense of the term), ethically, can one turn away, say, an

>African-American with no other "issues" than his ethnicity?

>Or, phrased another way, should a service provider engage in a

>practice, racial discrimination, given that such behavior in

>an open context would be illegal?

 

I suppose someone should at least make a stab at giving you a serious answer to a serious question.

 

Prostitution isn't a legal business. If someone who is in a legal business, a massage therapist for example, were to run an ad in any sort of general circulation periodical stating that he doesn't accept black clients, especially in a city (like Atlanta) with a large African-American population, what do you think would happen?

 

It's the rare escort who insists on accepting only those clients whom he finds physically attractive. If an escort accepts clients who are generally considered unattractive due to age or physical condition and turns away only those of a certain race, regardless of their age or physical condition, it's impossible to avoid the conclusion that he has a problem with people of that race. What you have to ask yourself is whether you feel comfortable doing business with someone who has an antipathy to people of that race. Would you deal with someone like that if he were in any other business than escorting? If not, what makes escorting different?

[Luv2play]

Well Deej, "res ipsa loquitor".:+

[+ deej]

Doug, since you obviously didn't read it in your zeal to disagree I'll reprint what I actually said here:

 

Businesses CAN turn down customers.

 

(Go ahead and scroll up. It's still there. I made it bold this time since you obviously couldn't see it the first time around.)

 

I did not mention the law. That's something you read into my comment. Like it or not, what I said is exactly correct. Businesses CAN turn down customers.

[buckguy]

I rarely agree with Woodlawn about anything (and find him windy & pedantic), but do agree with him here. I am also a resident of Atlanta (I even live in the city and regularly confront its problems, as well as those of the 'burb where I work). I am aware, via the remarks of visiting escorts, that STJ makes a lot of racist cracks and basically disourages people from spending time in places that attract large numbers of African-Americans (e.g., Buckhead's entertainment strip, an area that, depsite some well publicized incidents, is probably no more more orless dangerous than most of greater Atlanta and one of the few places here that has anything resembling vitality, as opposed to just generating traffic).

 

I've also been puzzled at the willingness of people to agree with STJ, especially given the more sympathetic responses to situations involving rejection of the old, the fat, the unattractive (remember, e.g., the reaming everyone gave to Cody Scott a few years ago when he criticized a cleint for being less than a stud). Someone engaged in a legal service business couldn't get away with this, why should STJ?

[buckguy]

I am usually measured in my remarks her and, in person. But let me put my position differently, in much more perjorative terms that SJT does (but terms that express a similar spirit and direct themselves at white people): Would it be okay if an escort (of any race, including Caucasian) said he wouldn't see clients who were racist rednecks?

[Guest LG320126]

>I am usually measured in my remarks her and, in person. But

>let me put my position differently, in much more perjorative

>terms that SJT does (but terms that express a similar spirit

>and direct themselves at white people): Would it be okay if an

>escort (of any race, including Caucasian) said he wouldn't see

>clients who were racist rednecks?

 

 

Hell yes! The escort business being what it is (an illegal business transaction between 2 people)escorts have the right to see who the hell they want to. If you don't like it, too bad!

[Guest bighugbearphx]

For what it is worth, I have always considered esorts to be a branch of the "performing arts" ... in essence, they hire themselves out to play a "scene" as someone's boyfriend or sex partner. To me, that's very different from most other types of businesses, where normal discrimination rules would apply.

 

Would you insist that an actor MUST accept any job that is offered to him? What if he refused to play a role that would require an interracial sexual affair? What if he had a problem once working for an Asian director, and made it a policy never to do so again? What if he were uncomfortable playing someone who was physically disabled? Or, what about a gay actor who refuses to play a straight sexual role, or a straight actor who refuses to play gay? These happen every day. Limiting one's roles can affect the actor's exposure, popularity and income, but this is a choice they make.

 

That said, if I became aware that an actor was a racist in his personal life, I would lose respect for that actor, but I'd still support his right to choose the "roles" he is comfortable with. And I'd extend that same courtesy to an escort.

[woodlawn]

>Would you insist that an actor MUST accept any job that is

>offered to him?

 

I wouldn't insist that an actor do anything. But if he refused to work with a particular director for no other reason than the director's race, or if he refused to perform a role that required him to have a love interest of a different race, I'd conclude that he has a major problem with people of a different race.

 

But an escort is not like an actor. Actors are hired by and paid by producers, not by each individual member of the audience that sees their performance. An escort is hired by and paid by his "audience." So the question remains, would you want to hire someone you know is a racist?

 

>but I'd

>still support his right to choose the "roles" he is

>comfortable with. And I'd extend that same courtesy to an

>escort.

 

 

Frankly, I'm not sure actors really have all of the "rights" you claim they do. Virtually every actor who works in stage, television or film in this country is a member of a union, as are directors, and the unions have certain rules concerning racial and religious discrimination.

 

But since escorts are in an illegal business, it makes no sense to talk about a "right" to conduct that business in any particular way. A "right" is an agreement that members of a community make about how they are going to treat each other in a particular situation. There's no such agreement governing how an escort conducts his business. An escort can choose to exclude clients of a certain race. A client can choose to pass up an escort who has such a policy. So the choice is yours.

[MiamiLooker]

"So the question remains, would you want to hire someone you know is a racist?"

 

Unless you believe that discrimination based on gender is acceptable, then according to your argument, you wouldn't hire an escort who wouldn't also fuck your mother.

[woodlawn]

>"So the question remains, would you want to hire someone you

>know is a racist?"

 

>Unless you believe that discrimination based on gender is

>acceptable, then according to your argument, you wouldn't hire

>an escort who wouldn't also fuck your mother.

 

Of course I believe discrimination based on gender is acceptable. For example, if I wanted to hire someone to be a surrogate mother I wouldn't hire a man. Would you?

 

You really shouldn't drink while posting.

[jimbeaux]

Luckily, I don't post here very often and have absolutely nothing to lose by expressing my opinion on this occasionally volatile subject. I think an escort has a right to refuse "service" to anyone for any reason whatsover. In the same instance, I would never hire someone who would not offer his service to people of color. The fact that the escort is honest does nothing to alleviate my disgust.

 

Of course, since I haven't hired an escort in about three years no one is going to lose much business from me.