Montreal in May--the good, the bad, and the ugly

[jerryskater]

Yes, DanseurMtl the Francis I know is Steve. I emailed him yesterday and he told me he was working at Le Cocktail.

 

If you see Martin please say hello from Jerry and Ed from New Jersey. Hope to see him this summer. Thanks.

 

Do you know what happened at Taboo? Last July it was dead and then picked up in August after Adonis closed. I'm sad to hear that it's not doing well. You can PM me if it's not appropriate for the public forum.

[LurkerSpeaks]

Firecat..and others.. I can also admit that Montreal has changed in the six years that I have been visiting. But I challenge you to name ONE place in the world that has not changed some in the same amount of time.. Things change..People change, Places change...My points were to the original author of the post about Montreal's death...I am not familiar with that person, nor was any of the other "regulars" that visited this weekend. We all are fairly regular visitors to Montreal and we all agreed that there was no SIGNIFICANT changes over the last few years..Not trying to say whoever he is did not have a bad time, merely saying that you get out of it what you put into it. Notice the emphasis on significant.. Many points that others brought up do explain some of the changes.. the economy overall, the acceptance of gays (especially in canada), the internet, etc..

 

And firecat, as far as my sexual encounters, I did not go into detail on the message board because I believe in some respect for the individuals, but I did have one very satisfying encounter in my apartment with a dancer, and I had several very satisfying backroom dances as well.. I just dont believe in naming names in public... And I did have a very good massage session that was only stopped from being full blown sex because no condom was available...So, if you are keeping count, I still consider the trip to be more of the positive side than negative. There were only two negatives encounters that I consider negative, and again, the one was a mixed negative..the boy was very willing to do anything, he just couldn't get it up. but the making out with him, the shower with him, and the things we DID do were still very nice.. If I had wanted a bottom that night, i would have rated him a 9 out of 10..

 

so, call me an optimist.. I believe in seeing the good in things, instead of dwelling on the bad...afterall, NOTHING can be all good..

[Alan]

I loved your frequent posts and I appreciate the time you took to write them. Thanks for sharing your trip with all of us. We loved being with you!

[doitb4ugo]

Ditto

 

I loved your frequent posts and I appreciate the time you took to write them. Thanks for sharing your trip with all of us. We loved being with you!

 

A very nice slice of your life...thanks for sharing. And Keep up the attitude....we can go along way in making our own happiness a reality.

[imrthr]

 

Lurker,

 

I applaud you for well written and interesting report. Also you must be the most Glass !/2 Full Guy in the world.

 

By your own account you had 3 sexual encounters , all of which ranged from a disaster to unsuccessful in completion.

 

You went to 2 nice restaurants where your food was over cooked and there was a flood.

 

In all your visits to strip clubs , it appears you had 3 good experiences in the back room.

 

In the old days if I couldn't have 3 great experiences per day in the back room , I would have considered it a disaster.

 

I'm afraid the other posters who have said that Montreal is a former shell of itself have got it right and your report just confirms it!!!!

 

 

 

Lurker did a great job of describing his recent experiences in Montreal. To that, I also applaud him. However, without any intent of being cruel, I cannot resist posting the following:

 

 

POLLYANNA -

 

 

Pol·ly·an·na [ pòllee ánnə ] (plural Pol·ly·an·nas)

 

noun

 

Definition:

 

eternal optimist: an unrealistically optimistic person

 

[Early 20th century. After the heroine of children's stories written by Eleanor Hodgman Porter (1868-1920), U.S. author]

 

-

[LurkerSpeaks]

i would much rather live my life seeing the good in things, instead of being a bitter person who only sees the bad..so with that in mind.. THANK YOU, i consider being a polyanna a compliment.. Please note--this is not intended to be a jab at any person...

[imrthr]

 

i would much rather live my life seeing the good in things, instead of being a bitter person who only sees the bad..so with that in mind.. THANK YOU, i consider being a polyanna a compliment..

 

 

Merely because other posters did not find Montreal the way you found it does not mean the other posters are "bitter" and "only" "see the bad." Your assessment of the other posters is indeed puzzling and harsh.

 

What I (and others) tried to explain is that we found the village negatively different than we found the village in prior years.

 

I agree, it is not necessarily a bad thing to be a Pollyanna.

 

At the same time, it is foolish to deny what has happened to the village during the past several years. Your writing nasty remarks about others who do not see Montreal as you see it is unnecessary.

 

I previously wrote that I am pleased that you had a good time and I meant it.

 

-

[firecat]

Neophyte

 

Lurker

 

I am not bitter. I am stating the facts that you wrote. You can't run away from what you wrote. The sex sucked. The restaurants sucked. You had almost no boys (3)to praise in the Back room of the Strip clubs.

 

Second of all I have forgotten more about Montreal then you will ever know. I lived there for 6 years and finally left 9 months ago.

 

The first 4 years were great and then Montreal started to go down hill . The reasons are many and varied but Montreal is not the same fun place in the Village that it used to be.

 

I was very careful to praise your report and then said you were a glass 1/2 full guy even though your report was more a Glass 3/4 empty.

 

Line up the positive things in your report and then you can argue with me.

 

Maybe you forgot to mention all the Great Sex you had. ( I doubt it) Maybe you forgot to mention all the great meals you had (except for Breakfast at Cora's) but I doubt it.

 

Maybe you forgot to mention all the other Hot Boys you had in the back rooms instead of 3 in 4 days. I doubt it.

 

 

If you have convinced yourself that Montreal is still a great place to visit in order to have sex with cute boys, have beautiful strippers in the back room, have great meals at good prices then good for you.

 

If I had the time I would pull out all your old reports on your trips to Montreal and compare them to this one. Believe me there is no comparison!!!!

 

Also I was nothing but respectful in my comments on your reports, you should learn to try to do the same!!!!!!

[LurkerSpeaks]

I just re-read my post that obviously offended the two of you. I never referred to or referenced anyone when I said that I (not anyone else) would rather live life with a positive outlook seeing the good, rather than being bitter and seeing only the bad....It was not meant as an insult to anyone.. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion..

 

Firecat, I look up to several posters on this board as the "foundation" that have helped others such as myself develop a thirst to travel and experience new lands.. You are one of those people. You probably don't even remember, but we met on my first ever visit to Montreal, back in May of 2004. I will never forget how it appeared to me, you sitting ringside in taboo, holding court to your own private harem of boys...I envied you for the life experiences you had had. I also look up to Marc Anthony, whose posts likewise convinced me to visit Montreal.. Tomcal is another who teased me with his tales of Rio, and now I have had the pleasure of visiting that great city.

 

I believe that the pupil becomes the master... Now that I have been blessed enough to visit a couple of great cities, i believe in sharing my experiences with others in the hopes that it might ignite that spark in someone else to visit. I try to be fair in my observations. I post the good and the bad as I see it... I respect your opinions very much...You are someone who has a proven track record as far as this site goes... Some other posters are unknown to me. It doesnt mean their opinions are not valid to them.. it merely does not hold as much credibility to me.

 

I apologize to anyone who took my "bitter" comment as a reference to themself..It was not meant as such...Maybe i have lower standards than other people here do.. but I still believe that while it has changed over the years, just like every other city in every other country, a good time can be had in Montreal.

[firecat]

apology

 

Lurker

 

Your apology is accepted along with the reasons for any mis-understanding.

 

I still wish that you would admit that when you say things have changed in Montreal, they are definitely not for the better.

 

I remember meeting you for the first time in Taboo. At that time there were 4 thriving Strip Clubs in The Village. Hell on weekends at Taboo or Adonis there were no seats at 9pm and the competition from boys to get permission to dance there was fierce. Sunday nights was audition night and the fun was doubled with first timers. Most did not get asked to come back.

 

Now anybody will be given a job if they will remove their clothes.

 

Campus in the afternoon , many times I had to wait an hour or more to get a dance with my favorite dancers. I can't comment on Campus at night or Stock but I know they were much busier.

 

There were 3 escort agencies and it was next to impossible to get a dud.

 

Of course we were getting a $1.42 for every US dollar. I was getting 3 dances in the back room for the equivalent of $15 US Now its $40-$60.

 

I was getting good escorts for $70-$90 US . Now its $200-$250 Meals were a bargain compared to the US even after the sky high taxes were added.

 

This is of course one of the reasons for Montreal not being the place it was. Less people visit from the USA which means less money for boys so boys look for other work.

 

Chicken or the Egg but it is a fact that there is no comparison to the Montreal of your first visit and the Montreal of now.

 

Can you still have a good time in Montreal. Of course it is possible but for a lot more money. The probability that you can have a great time , like a few years ago is extremely LOW.

 

 

IMHO many better places to spend your money and 8 months out of the year you won't need snowshoes!!!!

[imrthr]

 

 

snip snip snip - -

 

I still wish that you would admit that when you say things have changed in Montreal, they are definitely not for the better.

 

I remember meeting you for the first time in Taboo. At that time there were 4 thriving Strip Clubs in The Village. Hell, on weekends at Taboo or Adonis there were no seats at 9pm and the competition from boys to get permission to dance there was fierce. Sunday nights was audition night and the fun was doubled with first timers. Most did not get asked to come back.

 

Now anybody will be given a job if they will remove their clothes.

 

Campus in the afternoon , many times I had to wait an hour or more to get a dance with my favorite dancers. I can't comment on Campus at night or Stock but I know they were much busier.

 

There were 3 escort agencies and it was next to impossible to get a dud.

 

Of course we were getting a $1.42 for every US dollar. I was getting 3 dances in the back room for the equivalent of $15 US Now its $40-$60.

 

I was getting good escorts for $70-$90 US . Now its $200-$250 Meals were a bargain compared to the US even after the sky high taxes were added.

 

This is of course one of the reasons for Montreal not being the place it was. Less people visit from the USA which means less money for boys so boys look for other work.

 

Chicken or the Egg but it is a fact that there is no comparison to the Montreal of your first visit and the Montreal of now.

 

Can you still have a good time in Montreal. Of course it is possible but for a lot more money. The probability that you can have a great time , like a few years ago is extremely LOW.

 

 

IMHO many better places to spend your money and 8 months out of the year you won't need snowshoes!!!!

 

 

 

Very well said, Firecat.

 

The things you wrote are exactly my recollection of the village of the way it used to be and the way it is now.

 

Thanks for the wonderful reminiscence.

 

-

[LurkerSpeaks]

I guess we can all just agree to disagree..I know I cannot convince others that they had a good time..and they cannot convince me that I had a bad time.. so the only option is to go or don't go on your own risk.. and decide for yourself.. but irregardless, I wish everyone a great time in whatever choices they make.

[DanseurMTL]

The ugly

 

The most important factors responsible for making the stripclub scene in Montreal a shadow of what it was only a few years ago are:

 

A series of landmark legal rulings in Canada enabled curtained booths in the backrooms of stripclubs and now the law protects the actions of two consenting adults in those venues.

Which is not bad in itself as now customers don't run the risk of being arrested just by being inside an establishment of such nature.

 

 

R. v. Pelletier (1985) - The Quebec Superior Court allowed the use of pornographic videos inside of bars as decoration to set a mood, as opposed to before being only allowed at Peep Show theathres.

R. v. Tremblay (1993) - Supreme Court of Canada ruling that allowed dancers to masturbate themselves while being watched by customers. Only if this was done in a booth and care was taken by management to supervise. No contact was allowed whatsoever between dancers and customers.

R. v. Pelletier, [1999] - The Supreme Court of Canada allowed sexual contact between an erotic dancer and her client, provided that this activity took place in a private room.

 

The first gay strip club that offered curtained booths was Stock when it moved into it's final location in 2002. Then Campus and then Adonis followed suit. The only reason why Taboo didn't do so was because of a very specific restricting clause in the deal they had cut with the City of Montreal to reopen the club quickly after the May 2003 raid.

 

This raised the limits on what could be done in the private booths, now most customers could fulfill their fantasies. In the beginning dancers were making more money than ever, as the price of a dance climbed from $6-$10 to $20 for a 3.30 minute song. Inevitably, the customers who were willing to pay such fees got jaded and demanded more and more of their backroom performances, until they reached a point in which they found them unsatisfying.

 

How much should an engagement for sex cost? When backroom dances run at $20 a song, or $60 for 10 minutes?

 

At Campus dancers can leave at any time with a customer provided that they pay a bribe to the DJ and the barman.

At Taboo you only need to bribe the DJ (The door is far from the bar!)

At L'Adonis you could leave early if you bribed the DJ, but only after Tiguidoux left (around midnight, and he was only on Thursdays to Sundays).

At Stock there is a rule that dancers are only allowed to leave early at 1:00AM if they are escorted by a client. I knew a customer who actually went to Stock at 1:00AM just to help his favorite dancer get out early. At Stock one manager advises the new boys how they should charge for escorting (to expensive restaurants and to hotel rooms).

 

As a consequence many dancers have turned to escorting. They don't have to be in the club for 8 hours and respect the schedules and the rules.

 

Frank the manager at Taboo always told the dancers "don't do privates, privates kill the business". Frank himself was an ex-dancer. He took energetic action to curtail those that ventured into escorting. He never hesitated to suspend or fire a dancer that escorted. He also supervised the backroom. Put your feet on the stool!

 

Now greedy managers everywhere want their cut, they have turned into accomplices that make more money when the boys go out.

 

The quality of the dancers has gone down.

Firecat, you're right.

 

When customers were rich (I mean referring to the stock market or when property prices were climbing above the rate of inflation and many Americans were borrowing money against their houses), the dancers at the clubs were making obscene amounts of money, most were easily making $700 on a Friday or Saturday night at the end of the 90s. An attractive guy who did private performances afterhours could easily reach $1500. This earning potential drew people who wouldn't otherwise strip, like extremely hot college kids.

 

I have a friend who was an accountant for Taboo. He told me that when he went through the old papers, he found the old engagement contracts for incoming dancers. Dancers were specifically expected to leave elsewhere after THREE MONTHS. Auditions were held every week, every dancer had to re-audition. Dancers could pick a Friday OR the Saturday to work, not BOTH. Only Mr. Taboo was allowed to work as he pleased and exempted from re-audition. He saw the sheets of dancers, and they were much more attractive than what you see these days.

 

Now all you have at all the clubs is guys who are full-time strippers, junkie strippers working to make money for their drugs. 19 out of every 20 dancers have some form of addiction to either drugs, alcohol or cigarrettes, most of them is to the three. They need the drugs to numb their senses and do the stuff they do at the clubs, being on stage naked in front of strangers, letting themselves be touched by strangers in the back... These addictions take a strong physiological toll on the dancers, they age faster. Cigarrette smoke (4/5 smoke and they CHAIN SMOKE) destroys their teeth after only a few years. Many dancers come from troubled backgrounds and so they start their vices in their mid-teens.

 

Nobody makes enough in one day a week to survive, they need to work most of the week. Nobody goes to school, nor holds a real job. Anybody saying "I go to school" is lying, pure Bull Sh.. You might believe them at first (a 18 year old sweet kid), but hey try to go on a Tuesday or Wednesday night to the club. I'll bet you that they'll be there dancing! When do they sleep? or do homework?

 

Not only did the quality of the boys in the clubs go down, but also on the streets. The famous park beside the club sandwich is heavily supervised by the Montreal Police and it has been turned into a volleyball court. A friend used to get good quality on the street, now it's only crackheads... Crackheads and potheads everywhere.

 

Zoning restrictions set forth in municipal by-laws

Municipal governments in Canada are trying to get rid of stripclubs in general.

 

Don't forget, strip clubs are like any other bar or restaurant or store in the sense that they all lose their allure with time, and nothing stays open forever. But it's very tough to keep the scene alive if you can't get new licenses to open new venues.

The cities of Montreal and Toronto have refused to give out any more permits for the exploitation of erotism (Établissement exploitant l'erotisme), specially for gay bars. So the consequence is that there is only one place in Toronto, 379 Yonge St. (Remingtons/Magnum) which will have a gay strip club. In Montreal we have four 1111 rue Ste. Catherine E, 1171 rue Ste. Catherine E (Stock Bar), 1681 rue Ste. Catherine E (JP-L'Adonis), 1950 Blvd de Maisonneuve E. (Bar Taboo)

When you want to open a "new place", the investors are forced to buy an existing strip club and tear it down to their requirements... Exactly what happened to L'Adonis a year ago, it made no sense to the people (dancers, staff, customers) who frequented that club, but it made perfect sense to all the owners.

 

Banning of smoking inside bars/restaurants.

Many locals stopped going to bars throughout Canada.

 

To smoke, put on your coat or retrieve it from coatcheck (you have to pay again every time you bring it back to the coatcheck!) and get out of the bar when its -14C / 7 Fahrenheit.

Yes cigarette smoke is bad for your health, but I think those laws went too far. People were inside the bars voluntarily. The legislators should have compromised by allowing smoking in smoker-only sections. Most people can't just stop smoking like that, smoking is highly addictive. So they chose to not go to where they couldn't be smoking.

Now smoking is only allowed on outdoor terraces; but there is talk of banning smoking there too...

 

 

There are other reasons too

Explored to exhaustion in the mainstream news media...

- The USD / CAD parity.

- The rise of the price of gasoline

- Banning of smoking inside bars/restaurants. Many stopped going to the bars throughout Canada.

- Higher taxes in Canada

- The mandatory use of passports for US citizens coming into Canada (In effect since 2002)

- Airtravel is not as smooth as before, it takes much longer to get into your plane than a decade ago.

- The rise of similar clubs in various cities in the US. Why go all the way to Montreal?

- The impact of new technologies such as Grindr. Travelers can get what they want and mostly for free!

- The general impact of the internet and home entertainment systems, people are more likely to stay home now.

[zeferrelli]

Lurker - great review. I go to Montreal six times a year at least. the place is great.

 

thanks

[LurkerSpeaks]

Danseur, thank you for your valuable insight. I appreciate your input..also, I sent you a private message, when you have time to respond.

[jerryskater]

Thanks Danseur

 

That was a really good analysis of the issues.

 

Thanks.

[LD19847]

Interesting insights. Looking at the Stock website, the roster of dancers is much smaller than it used to be.

[Karl-G]

6 Stripper Bars

 

There were actually six male stripper bars in Montreal at the height of the Golden Age. Taboo was the primary mecca for visitors from the U.S. Then Stock provided some bigger guys for those who might like them. Campus was a mixed bag and No. 3 for quite a while, until they discovered the very effective policy of beginning with twinks in the afternoon and gradually adding others into the evening. Adonis was always a mixed bag, but quite active.

 

Then there was the West Side Bar, just west of downtown, and it catered to businessmen in the afternoons. It was always fun to see a Suit taking a break from his financial services office and playing with a nude boy on his lap. And then there was Nirvana, which occupied a very large room on the second floor of what is now the Skye Complex. There was a large raised stage in the center of the room and chairs and couches all around the outside. Lots of mirrors on the walls and ceiling and lots of red velvet and red lights. It always felt like a very nice brothel. There was a room off to the north side where they had alcoves with red velvet drapes down to the floor. They may actually have been the first place in Montreal to offer total privacy, even before New Stock. Certainly I had a lot of fun in back.

 

On a typical Friday or Saturday in Montreal in the Golden Days, there would have been 30 boys at Taboo, 30 boys at Stock, 30 boys at Campus, 30 boys at Adonis, and perhaps 20 boys at Nirvana. I never stayed at West Side long enough to know much about them. But they must have had at least a dozen boys and probably more. Which means, on a typical weekend evening (and usually Thursday also when I was there), you could see 150 different naked boys dancing in Montreal. It was pretty special.

 

As mentioned by others, there were also several very good escort agencies with the emphasis on twinks. Actually, there was just one, but it used several names and was run by a single man. He provided 80-90% of the escorts hired in Montreal, I was told. Rates were $100 CD, which was about $65 US during the Golden Age. The boys were always very good, very prompt, very clean, very cute, very reliable, and very able. You could easily afford to have two per day. Ahhhh.

[firecat]

once again

 

I am not trying to say you cannot have a good time in Montreal. It is possible to have a good time in a leaking row boat in the middle of a swamp if you are with the right person.

 

My point is that you cannot have the kind of times in Montreal that existed a few years ago.

 

That is a fact which I defy anyone to dispute that knows what they are talking about .

 

Four thriving Strip Clubs versus one and 3/4 now. Three thriving escort agencies versus one now at 3 times the price. $ 1.42 for every US dollar versus $1.

 

For those that currently think Montreal is a great value and has a thriving Strip and Escort scene , then I say you are either new to Montreal or you have a faulty memory of what used to be.

 

Things change of course but not as drastically as Montreal has changed. Brazil is pretty much the same as it was 6 years ago with costs increasing maybe 10 or 15%. The boys are still just as many and just as good as before. The saunas are still thriving.

 

Same can be said for Prague and Thailand. And for strip clubs in the USA Florida is far better then Montreal. Just read a thread of a Gold Star reporter Marc Anthony on http://www.maleescortreview.com

 

Better places for less money all over the world then Montreal. Who knows in 5 years the Canadian Dollar may go the other way and Montreal will be a bargain again. But for now it will not get any of my money!!!!

[imrthr]

 

snip snip snip

 

Then there was the West Side Bar, just west of downtown, and it catered to businessmen in the afternoons. It was always fun to see a Suit taking a break from his financial services office and playing with a nude boy on his lap. And then there was Nirvana, which occupied a very large room on the second floor of what is now the Skye Complex. There was a large raised stage in the center of the room and chairs and couches all around the outside. Lots of mirrors on the walls and ceiling and lots of red velvet and red lights. It always felt like a very nice brothel. There was a room off to the north side where they had alcoves with red velvet drapes down to the floor. They may actually have been the first place in Montreal to offer total privacy, even before New Stock.

 

 

What a great memory you have!

 

I had forgotten about the West Side Bar although I did go there several times.

 

If I recall correctly, Nirvana did not last long. It seemed to open then disappear in only a few months.

 

If the negative changes in the village continue at the rate they have thus far, it won’t be long before we will be walking down an empty Ste. Catherine street and hear only the sound of our own footsteps.

 

Yes, the Golden Years of Montreal's "village" is gone but not forgotten.

 

-

[Karl-G]

Nirvana Caught Fire

 

Nirvana was around for six or eight months. Then one night there was a fire. It was a very large room, perhaps two stories high, and the firefighters and water put too much stress on the ceiling and it collapsed on the room, and water damaged the first floor also. They were able to keep the rest of the building in business during repairs, but when they reopened that space, someone made the decision not to have a male stripper bar there. The straight kids going to the dance area across the hall used to try and peek in Nirvana.

[DanseurMTL]

I talked to Roberto (Campus, ex-Taboo) the other day. He said he started in Nirvana. And he mentioned they offered some women strippers for a lesbian clientele! He said that everybody shared the same lockers...

[Luv2play]

Lurker

 

I still wish that you would admit that when you say things have changed in Montreal, they are definitely not for the better.

 

IMHO many better places to spend your money and 8 months out of the year you won't need snowshoes!!!!

 

Who are you speaking for? Are they not better simply because your American dollars don't buy as much as they did 5 or 6 years ago? GET OVER IT. Your country fucked up big time with the economy and we are all paying for it.

 

Better places? Care to name any? Better off needing snowshoes than drowning in your floods in Tennessee or getting blown off the face of the earth in Oklahoma. How about sailing on an oil slick in Key West. Yes, I'm sure there are many places that you will enjoy. We won't miss you!

[Guest CTguy]

Montreal

 

I love reading these threads on Montreal, being from CT I go up often and reading about it here is like I'm back visiting. I have been going up there on a regular basis for well over 10 years now and I think I can talk about it with some authority I think I've seen it all and well, done most of it I believe the first time I went up there was back in 1988, damn thats scary. At the time Campus was the main strip club, Taboo didn't even exist, and I don't think Stock or Adonis was there either ?? There was a twink strip club on the other side of st catherine somewhere near club sandwich, can't remember the name?

 

I think the best times in Montreal was around the years 2000 to 2005, I remember picking out the hottest guy in the bar, having a few dances with him, and they would always agree on doing a "private". For some reason after 2005 it seemed much more difficult to get a guy to do a "private", not sure why?

 

I definitely agree Montreal isn't what it used to be it just doesn't have the same magic compared to its heyday. Why that is I think was already said pretty well above, plus personally I've just gotten older and I guess I can't party like I used to LOL With that said, I still think its a great place to visit, I just don't go as often. Actually I was there last this past Thanksgiving and I had a great time, met a couple of HOT boys and had a lot of fun. As someone said you get out of it what you put into it. Actually I'm going up next weekend and I can't wait

[firecat]

Hey

 

Hey Luv2Play

 

Try reading the posts.. Sure the collapse of the US dollar has a lot to do with it and of course that is not Montreal's fault.

 

But because of that and other reasons the Village as a Strip Club, Cute Boy destination is a shell of its former self.

 

Plenty of posters on here agree and I won't repeat the things I and others have said.

 

The Village in 2006 and 2010 are not even close to the same place and not for the better.

 

In fact name me one thing that is better in Montreal as to Strip Clubs or available Cute Boys .

 

 

If you are honest there is nothing!!!! Thats the facts Baby whether you like them or not and since well over 1/2 of the posters here agree and the other 1/3 just think that Montreal is still worth a visit, I rest my case.