Personal Ethics - Being HIV+

[doitb4ugo]

Let me clarify, if I can....I am HIV+ and my partner (not an escort) in this case lists himself on his profile as Negative....so assume he is negative. In an ethical sense it matters more what I believe him to be rather than what he is. I am on meds and am my viral load is currently "undetectable". I was the "top" during this encounter but often am the bottom as well. I usually find other poz partners so that we can be more comfortable with each other...I have been more than willling to take the added risk of getting a different strain if the virus is that occurs....but again this is more about my feelings for my partner and being concerned that he is comfortable with the risk of being unwrapped with me but I'm not sure I am comfortable...thus the posting.

[+ purplekow]

Let me clarify, if I can....I am HIV+\.

That as far as any clarification needs to go. Your responsibility is to yourself, your partner, the gay community at risk and the human population at risk. You may put yourself at risk but your actions in barebacking are putting all the others at risk. No sugar coating here, to have bareback sex in your situation is unethical and dangerous to others other than yourself. You know that. You can certainly doitb4ugo, but ethically you should try your best not to take anyone else with you.

[Diverdan]

Rich,

I certainly do not want to come across as judgemental, but even if your viral load is currently "undetectible" it is still there and always will be there, and you can transmit it to anyone, whether they are positive or negative. Currently, as you know, there is no cure, and once you have the virus, at least for the foreseable future, you will always have the virus and can always pass it on, even if the load is "undectable"... I work in health care and have all my entire life. I have lost so many friends and colleagues to this disease, but as some posters have pointed out, other sexually transmitted diseases can also be transmitted if you are unprotected, and sometimes even if you are protected. I urge you to examine your position on this issue in light of the risks to you and your partners.

DD

[josephga]

imo if you are HIV+ and the partner is negative or you believe the partner is negative then protection should be used regardless. you can make the choice to protect them

[doitb4ugo]

imo if you are HIV+ and the partner is negative or you believe the partner is negative then protection should be used regardless. you can make the choice to protect them

 

Making it okay if my parner is Poz??

[josephga]

Making it okay if my parner is Poz??

 

no it's not okay. due to the strain factor

[doitb4ugo]

Negative guys or guys who have never been tested seem to get to be able to decide what level of risk they are willing to take when they have sex....Did I lose that right, as well as my partner losing his right, when I contracted the virus?Just asking?

[EZEtoGRU]

Such a disappointing turn this conversation is taking. So much for taking responsibility and doing the right thing for one's self and others. It's kind of like helping a bridge-jumper take the leap with a firm push.

 

I am exiting the conversation as I really find it too disturbing.

[Bosguy]

All I can say is that Rich is unequivocally the most honest and genuinely concerned individual that I know in this forum... and his question involves not only issues of heath, but basic morality, and ethics as well... and wanting to attain a higher standard is something that defines Rich's persona.

 

I have pondered Rich's question over the past several hours... Still, it is quite interesting to get the various opinions in this thread... After much thought I must say that those in the health profession use the term "universal precautions"... the translation being "play safe no matter what"... In other words, the health professional always assumes that the patient is positive... and the patient can be at ease that he can feel safe even if treated by a health care professional who is infected. Therefore a barrier is used no matter what... plus HIV is not the only risk about which one must be concerned... Consequently, all other infectious diseases and conditions are considered to be potentially present as well... Hence the moniker "universal"... as in for everybody, everyone, always, every time, for every disease, constantly, for ever, for eternity, etc. no matter what! Doing otherwise would only potentially exacerbate, aggravate, and worsen an already quite complicated situation.

 

In the final analysis, health professionals "play" by the highest known standards... that should be the ultimate goal... in an ideal world that is... Still, we don't all live in that ideal world...

 

I totally agree with WG concerning Rich. We have become friends on the Forum and I had the privilege of spending time with him for a wonderful visit and luncheon. I just wish Rich and anyone in his presence, the ultimate best wishes

 

Boston Bill

[doitb4ugo]

I would like to thank all who posted on this thread as well as those who contacted me privately. My life is a work in process and as I mentioned, this question had never been presented to me until now...I am processing it as I do all events in my life, trying to make sense of it and make my actions something that I can be proud of. After all it is "me" that must live with what I do....(As well as my partners)

 

I also need to remind myself that always knowing what the "right" thing is is not so easy in real life. Add to that the fact that I am not perfect, but striving. Failure is surely a part of it all as is the desire to not fail.

Again, Thank You.

[+ Travis69]

Negative guys or guys who have never been tested seem to get to be able to decide what level of risk they are willing to take when they have sex....Did I lose that right, as well as my partner losing his right, when I contracted the virus?Just asking?

 

Perhaps some of the anger being expressed and directed at you is because most of us have lost friends and partners to this damn disease and we don't see an end to it. You are a stranger to me but when I read that you had become HIV positive I felt like crying for you. As I stated earlier I think you and your partner have the right to make your own decisions but I would hate to see yet another person on this earth burdened with this disease.

[uwsman2]

Early in the thread somebody mentioned legal consequences. Let me make that concrete. In most states, it is a felony to engage in bareback sex knowing that you are HIV+. I recently read a federal court decision denying a writ of habeas corpus to an HIV+ man who was convicted of having bareback sex with three different partners and sentenced to 75 years in prison. Translating into English... he was prosecuted in state court for violating their statute making it a felony to engage in conduct that could transmit HIV or HBV (hepatitis B virus) while knowing that one is infected, sentenced to 75 years. He appealed his conviction up to the state supreme court without success, arguing that as long as he didn't "intend" to infect his victims, he did not have the criminal intent necessary to violate the statute. No court buys that argument. After his last state appeal was rejected, he filed from prison a petition for a writ of habeas corpus with the federal court. In his petition, he only challenged his sentence, not the conviction, arguing that it violated the 8th Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) and other constitutional provisions. In brief, he argued a 75-year sentence was unconstitutionally disproportionate to his offense, since it turns out that none of his sexual partners were infected. The court rejected all his arguments.

 

So, Rich, my advice to you as a lawyer is that you should not engage in felonious conduct.

[Diverdan]

Thanks, uwsman2... not just for Rich, but for everyone who has been reading this thread....

[gallahadesquire]

Early in the thread somebody mentioned legal consequences. Let me make that concrete. In most states, it is a felony to engage in bareback sex knowing that you are HIV+. I recently read a federal court decision denying a writ of habeas corpus to an HIV+ man who was convicted of having bareback sex with three different partners and sentenced to 75 years in prison. Translating into English... he was prosecuted in state court for violating their statute making it a felony to engage in conduct that could transmit HIV or HBV (hepatitis B virus) while knowing that one is infected, sentenced to 75 years. He appealed his conviction up to the state supreme court without success, arguing that as long as he didn't "intend" to infect his victims, he did not have the criminal intent necessary to violate the statute. No court buys that argument. After his last state appeal was rejected, he filed from prison a petition for a writ of habeas corpus with the federal court. In his petition, he only challenged his sentence, not the conviction, arguing that it violated the 8th Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) and other constitutional provisions. In brief, he argued a 75-year sentence was unconstitutionally disproportionate to his offense, since it turns out that none of his sexual partners were infected. The court rejected all his arguments.

 

So, Rich, my advice to you as a lawyer is that you should not engage in felonious conduct.

 

i Knew we had to have a lawyer around here, some where. We've covered the oldest, second oldest, and third oldest professions. When do the bakers and the winemakers chime in?

[+ Travis69]

With it being a felony many have decided not to get tested. If they aren't tested they can say they didn't know. Creates another problem.

[Steven_Draker]

With it being a felony many have decided not to get tested.

 

That's a slippery slope.

 

Being responsible and getting regularly tested is the way to go. The sooner the virus is detected and treatment is undertaken the less probable is to transmit HIV.

 

Thank you for starting this thread, Rich. I wish there were more people who are upfront with their status like yourself.

[+ purplekow]

Negative guys or guys who have never been tested seem to get to be able to decide what level of risk they are willing to take when they have sex....Did I lose that right, as well as my partner losing his right, when I contracted the virus?Just asking?

 

While this is a different question the answer remains the same, when you are negative you are still obligated to protect yourself and in theory your partner from your as yet undiagnosed positive status. There was a time you were positive when you legitimately thought you were negative but you were wrong. What one ultimately chooses to do it one thing, but when one asks what the ethical thing is, then the standard for that is much higher.

[whipped guy]

Being responsible and getting regularly tested is the way to go. The sooner the virus is detected and treatment is undertaken the less probable is to transmit HIV.

Wise words...

 

There was a time you were positive when you legitimately thought you were negative but you were wrong.

So true...

 

I wish there were more people who are upfront with their status like yourself.

I specifically know situations where in medically aligned professions the percentage of patients suspected of having HIV who admit to the fact is quite low percentage wise... and this in situations where professionalism and confidentiality come into play... Hence the need for those "universal precautions" mentioned above.

[doitb4ugo]

I think I can safely say.."sorry for posting this" I did not anticipate how defensive I would be when it hits this close to home...Thanks for your input....I realize that for me it is both an ethical issue and and a sexual one.

[jjkrkwood]

I think I can safely say.."sorry for posting this" I did not anticipate how defensive I would be when it hits this close to home...Thanks for your input....I realize that for me it is both an ethical issue and and a sexual one.

 

You shouldnt be sorry doit, but we are often disappointed when we dont get the response and support we expect or hope for. The board is here to be supportive, but to also present ALL the different sides to the coin, whetehr we like the other sides or not. Of course you need to do what you feel is right in your heart, but for me, its simply a matter of common sense. Simply put, NOT speading a highly contagious virus...

[doitb4ugo]

You shouldnt be sorry doit, but we are often disappointed when we dont get the response and support we expect or hope for. The board is here to be supportive, but to also present ALL the different sides to the coin, whetehr we like the other sides or not. Of course you need to do what you feel is right in your heart, but for me, its simply a matter of common sense. Simply put, NOT speading a highly contagious virus...

 

I had no problem with the responses given...only my unexpected defensiveness...in light of agreeing with most of the posters...it is one thing to understand the issue intellectually..another to process it with your emotions/eelings...no beef here.

[Diverdan]

Rich... I was impressed by your original post and by your continuing reactions... it is not an easy issue to deal with, and as you said, intellectually dealing with issues is quite different than understanding and accepting the emotional and feelings component. I continued to be impressed by your willingness to accept and incorporate some of the posts into your psyche... not an easy thing to do... as a psychologist, I know of what I speak.... but the fact that you did the original post and are willing to learn and understand from the posts of your friends and colleagues on this Forum is a testament to your personhood... I continue to be impressed, and often wonder if I could be so adept at dealing with the issue as you have done. I have lost many friend and professional colleagues over the years to this dreaded disease, and as I said in an earlier post, I try hard never to judge what anyone else decides to do with their life. But at the same time, we must be clear about the effects of our choices and how they affect others, which I know you are dealing with too. So, my very best to you, as you navigate these waters and deal with issues that many of us may never have to deal with.

DD