The Death of the Gay Bar

[EZEtoGRU]

Ok.....probably some exaggeration on the title, but I suspect many gay bars are really suffering these days.

 

Somewhat unusual for me lately, but I did a night on the town in Houston on Wednesday night. I hit four well known bars here in this order: TC's, JR's, Montrose Mining Company, and the 611. Everywhere was completely dead except for the 611 which was moderately busy. I know it was Wednesday night, but 2-3 years ago, JR's and TC's would have been pretty busy on a Wednesday. Not packed.....but busy.

 

We have discussed the issue of the viability of gay bars in the past on different threads. The combination of social network internet gay cruising (Grindr, Scruff, Craigslist, etc) as well being gay going mainstream and accepted, seem to be doing a number on the gay bars. I think certain specialty type bars (ie stripper bars and wrinkle room bars) will still do well due to their target market. However, our average standard gay bar seems to be really suffering. In the last 3 years, four gay bars have closed in Houston (Mary's, Decade's, Chance's (the lesbian bar), and the BRB). During that time, two new bars have opened: F-bar (doing well) and the Houston Eagle (struggling).

 

Are you seeing a similar dynamic in your city? What will be the situation with gay bars in 10 years?

[+ LIguy]

I think the other issue affecting not only gay bars but all bars is the risk of getting a DUI. Here on Long Island there are many road blocks on Fri and Sat nights to check sobriety. We used to have around 7 gay bars but now we're down to 2. If I want to barhop I get on the Long Island Railroad and go into Manhattan and stop drinking at least 2 hours before the train ride home.

[+ azdr0710]

not that gay bars will utterly disappear, but I think many gays and lesbians now just go wherever they want.....it being a "gay" bar may not be important to many anymore....

[EZEtoGRU]

not that gay bars will utterly disappear, but I think many gays and lesbians now just go wherever they want.....it being a "gay" bar may not be important to many anymore....

 

I agree az. Being gay is pretty mainstream today (which overall is a good thing). Young gay people especially don't feel the need to go to a gay bar that frequently.

 

LIguy raises a good point about DUI risk and the reduction of people going to bars....gay or not.

[operalover21]

It seems to be a byproduct of all the acceptance and change during the last 40 years. Most of the people I know under the age of 33 almost never go to a gay bar. In NYC! That was unheard of when I was younger. My best friend -- who is 32 -- and has been openly out since the age of 19 never goes to a gay bar. He'd rather go to some hip place in Wiliamsburg.

Gayness is so much more "matter of fact" -- at least in large cities -- than it used to be.

 

It's all good methinks. I was trying to think of the last time I was in a gay bar and can't actually recall.

[+ Hoover42]

I go to a gay bar about once a year and it's pretty much the only time I get to hangout with other gay men. It'll be too bad once the bars are all gone.

[Guy Fawkes]

Here we've lost the "Grill on Broadway" was there one week and for lease the next.

[+ Gar1eth]

Ok.....probably some exaggeration on the title, but I suspect many gay bars are really suffering these days.

 

Somewhat unusual for me lately, but I did a night on the town in Houston on Wednesday night. I hit four well known bars here in this order: TC's, JR's, Montrose Mining Company, and the 611. Everywhere was completely dead except for the 611 which was moderately busy. I know it was Wednesday night, but 2-3 years ago, JR's and TC's would have been pretty busy on a Wednesday. Not packed.....but busy.

 

We have discussed the issue of the viability of gay bars in the past on different threads. The combination of social network internet gay cruising (Grindr, Scruff, Craigslist, etc) as well being gay going mainstream and accepted, seem to be doing a number on the gay bars. I think certain specialty type bars (ie stripper bars and wrinkle room bars) will still do well due to their target market. However, our average standard gay bar seems to be really suffering. In the last 3 years, four gay bars have closed in Houston (Mary's, Decade's, Chance's (the lesbian bar), and the BRB). During that time, two new bars have opened: F-bar (doing well) and the Houston Eagle (struggling).

 

Are you seeing a similar dynamic in your city? What will be the situation with gay bars in 10 years?

 

I'm assuming a 'wrinkle room' bar is for us distinguished older gents ? As for gay bars in Houston- why would you need them to be out with the community as long as you have the 24/7 House of Guys (Pies) on Kirby?

 

Gman

 

(That's an in joke to people who live in or are familiar with Houston. It's a local pie/Denny's like place 'House of Pies'

located not far from the gay area (Montrose) and popular with students from Rice University. Four years ago I had the pleasure of treating Vince Ferelli and his then partner to a late night breakfast there. Unfortunately due to time constraints I wasn't able to have more personal time with Vince. Still he was a very nice guy. )

 

Gman

[EZEtoGRU]

I'm assuming a 'wrinkle room' bar is for us distinguished older gents ? As for gay bars in Houston- why would you need them to be out with the community as long as you have the 24/7 House of Guys (Pies) on Kirby?

 

Gman

 

(That's an in joke to people who live in or are familiar with Houston. It's a local pie/Denny's like place 'House of Pies'

located not far from the gay area (Montrose) and popular with students from Rice University. Four years ago I had the pleasure of treating Vince Ferelli and his then partner to a late night breakfast there. Unfortunately due to time constraints I wasn't able to have more personal time with Vince. Still he was a very nice guy. )

 

Gman

Yes a "wrinkle room" is for distinguished older gentlemen.....and I'm in my 50's and consider myself in that group.

 

More importantly, I am familiar with the House of Pies here in Houston. I am there at least once a month for breakfast ......although I have never had any pie there. LOL.

[+ Gar1eth]

Yes a "wrinkle room" is for distinguished older gentlemen.....and I'm in my 50's and consider myself in that group.

 

I am too. But I'm lucky. I don't have any wrinkles- at least I don't if I stand a normal distance and look in the mirror without my glasses on

 

More importantly, I am familiar with the House of Pies here in Houston. I am there at least once a month for breakfast ......although I have never had any pie there. LOL.

 

Yeah- it's ok. But you can get that kind of breakfast food lots of places. I think I might prefer getting a good breakfast burrito/taco at either Good Company Mexican Food or Taco Cabana. Where I currently live I've met several displaced Texans- and we all miss good BBQ and breakfast tacos.

 

Gman

[operalover21]

I am too. But I'm lucky. I don't have any wrinkles- at least I don't if I stand a normal distance and look in the mirror without my glasses on

 

 

 

Yeah- it's ok. But you can get that kind of breakfast food lots of places. I think I might prefer getting a good breakfast burrito/taco at either Good Company Mexican Food or Taco Cabana. Where I currently live I've met several displaced Texans- and we all miss good BBQ and breakfast tacos.

 

Gman

 

Now that I'm in my 50s, I consider "distinguished older gentlemen" to be men in their 70s

[trilingual]

At least some of the bars in Kansas City are doing well. Missy B's, the main dance club, is thronged on weekends. Bistro 303 (which also serves excellent food earlier in the day and early evening) also gets crowded on weekends. Thanks to the internet, the bars aren't the only place to cruise any more, and that has undoubtedly affected them, but the internet isn't a very satisfying place to go dance your ass off or get together with your friends for smart gay brunch and drinks! So there probably will always be a place for gay bars, but there may not be as many of them and the format may change. However, even here in Kansas City the crowd at the bars is noticeably more mixed, both in gender and sexual orientation. When I was younger and went out often, there were relatively few women at the men's bars, and, of course, straights were unheard of. Nowadays there seem to be as many women as men at places like Missy B's and a fair number of straight couples -- I guess they find the music good and the environment safe and much less trouble-prone than many of the straight spots in town.

[JT Brooklyn]

It seems to be a byproduct of all the acceptance and change during the last 40 years. Most of the people I know under the age of 33 almost never go to a gay bar. In NYC! That was unheard of when I was younger. My best friend -- who is 32 -- and has been openly out since the age of 19 never goes to a gay bar. He'd rather go to some hip place in Wiliamsburg.

Gayness is so much more "matter of fact" -- at least in large cities -- than it used to be.

 

It's all good methinks. I was trying to think of the last time I was in a gay bar and can't actually recall.

 

Totally Agree at least it seems to be the case in NYC.

[+ Charlie]

I don't know what the situation is in the local gays bars, because I don't go to bars anymore, which sort of answers the general question. From age 18 to about 50, I was a regular bar-goer, because that was where one socialized with friends and picked up tricks. The closing of a popular gay bar was a social crisis. The main reasons I stopped going were not the dilution of the core community--i.e., the social acceptance of gays in formerly straight-only venues--and the rise of social networking online, but the fact that bars were late night places, unsuitable for older people who fall asleep early and get up early (like me), and once one gets beyond a certain age, they are not very productive for pick-ups anyway.

[+ Gar1eth]

I was never a bar person even when I was young. The only times I really went was with a group of friends to straight bars since I wasn't out. The few times I went to a straight bar alone, I was pretty dismal at picking up chicks. I don't like to dance- and not only do I not like to- I'm one of those gay guys with no sense of rhythm. And the smoke used to kill my lungs. I always had to go outside for fresh air breaks.

 

Gman

[Michael Wayne]

excellent thread guys. Last July in Houston when I was there the bars were also very dead. I think New Orleans is an exception to this rule. The bars are full but all the little cuties have their faces buried in grindr at the bar! lol! Ft. Lauderdale (especially Georgies' Alibi) still has a nice crowd and is fun. I will add this: perhaps the proliferation of escort sites is also contributing to the general decline. For 150-300 a guy can get laid good with a hottie...drink at home with no chance of a dui...and not have to deal with the smoke in those places. http://www.rentmen.com/mikeyusatop

[bigvalboy]

The general consensus here has not been my observation. In WEHO there is a line outside of almost every bar on the weekends, and standing room only once inside. Even the bars that have been there 20+ years, you will see a packed house on the weekends. Summer time in the afternoon on SM blvd it is almost like a block party. Parking has become horrendous, with many of the lots resorting to 'stadium' style parking after 11pm. Trunks/Motherlode/Gold Coast/Fubar are wall to wall guys on selected week-nights events and every weekend...

 

In FTL you can barely move around in the late afternoon and evening at The Village Pub/Rosie's/and The Alibi. And at Rosie's the Valet lot is full by early evening. I circled the parking lot at Alibi's the other night for 15 min before I found a spot. I often say to friends that you would never know there was a recession.

 

I met a forum member at the Boardwalk a week or so ago, and we both commented that we had never seen it so busy. Both parking lots were full.

 

Much of the downturn might be happening else where, but not where I have been lately...

[edjames]

As a young gay man, I practically grew up in gay bars and had a hell of a good time doing so. I fondly remember those days.

 

Today's economy and the internet are the primary reason gay bars are declining.

 

Here in NYC commercial rents have soared to the point that it is prohibitive for a small business owner to afford the rent. Case in point, the veritable landmark bar, Rawhide, on Eighth Avenue in Chelsea closed down recently when the monthly rent skyrocketed to $27,000 a month.

 

Compounding to the problem are residential rents. Here in NYC neighborhoods used to be full of young gays but that is not the case today. Young professionals in my apartment building are sharing apartments and paying exorbitant amounts of money on monthly rent. One young man moved out the other day and bitterly complained that his market rate rent was being increase by $800 a month! (He was already paying $3,200 a month for a 1 bedroom!) The landlord and managing company did not even address the issue with him when he asked to negotiate. He was given 30 days to vacate. Most young gay guys I meet live far from Manhattan.

 

Not only is the economy to blame but local community boards have begun to crackdown on entertainment venues throughout the city citing noise and crime, and refusing to issue liquor licenses.

 

The internet has changed the world and people no longer have to venture further than their sofa to meet people. So let’s blame social media sites for the inability of young people to interact with others.

 

Finally, who can make money these days with a bunch of folks sitting around sipping a bottle of water all night?

 

Think the strip clubs in NYC are doing well? Not so. Attendance seemed a bit off at Adonis Lounge on Wednesday night and was stifling hot and very uncomfortable. Club20 has experienced a decline over the past couple of years. XL's Strip and Grind wasn't well attended on its Sunday night show two weeks ago and I doubt it'll do that well this Sunday with temperatures into the 90's here.

 

The world changes and we have to adapt. Back in the '50's and '60's it wasn't unusual for gay bars to be almost underground and secret places to go. Many had huge signs in the entranceway stating "THIS IS A RAIDED PREMISES...” Many bars prohibited cruising and you hooked up by looking in the mirror behind the bar. Many bars and clubs were Mafia protected and the local police were paid off to overlook the clientele. In some clubs you had to be with a woman to enter. The 70's, 80's and 90's boomed when the economy had soared and disco made it 'in" to go out and boogie. A relaxed moral atmospshere embraced the back room bars and bathhouses. In the 80's and '90's AIDS killed not only the clubs but the customers and a lot of gay bar owners..

 

ED

[fedssocr1]

I think there are so many other venues for guys to meet these days that the bars are less necessary, or are less of a "community center" than many of them used to be. Here is DC the most successful gay bar is probably Nellie's which is a gay sports bar. It attracts straights too though.

[+ blondeq]

I don't think it is so much gay bars that are seeing a downturn, but all bars. It is a very hard business. Most bars rely on their regulars to provide >50% of their revenue. Those bars that don't cultivate the regulars don't last long. I have a friend that owns 2 straight bars. In both cases, he tells me that he has to constantly think of new ways to re-invent the bars but assure that the new invention is palatable to his regulars. This means finding ways to get people into the bar and staying for at least 2 hours (he reports that if a patron stays less than 2 hours, it is a 25% difference in money spent). For my friend, he targets customers between 30-50 years old. He echos the previous thoughts about older folks not being as interested in the bar life and says that the <30 crowd is too fickle to justify any real investment to attract them (they'll move onto the next greatest fad before he can recoup his investment).

 

Ultimately, I think it is a combination of factors, but the biggest factor is understanding your customer and delivering a product that they want and for which they are willing to pay. Just offering a place to buy a drink doesn't seem like a relevant business plan.

[bostonman]

I've never really been much of a "gay bar" person - even when I started going to them when I came out at 17, through my college days. In those days, most of the bars I frequented were dance clubs, and I'm just not a dancer, lol. Then - we're talking the early 80's - the music was mostly disco, which I could handle - once it started turning into "house music" etc, I really didn't identify anymore, and I lost touch with the scene. And as a fairly shy person, I've never been comfortable with the whole pick-up scene - if I'm going to a bar it's really to hang out with friends and have some drinks. So I prefer the quieter clubs, or sometimes the "piano bar" clubs - but even then, at this stage of my life, I don't find the need to identify a bar as gay-centric to want to go there.

 

But yes - both in Connecticut, where I came out as a teen, and in Boston, where I went to college (and live to this day), I do have fun memories of being younger and adventurous, and seeing a night out at a gay club to be something a bit rebellious, but also going to a place where I knew I'd have something special in common with the rest of the clientele. I wish I could remember the name of the Hartford dance club I went to (I used to attend Friday night meetings of a local gay youth group, then we'd hit the club afterward), though i also remember the Chez Est, which is still around. In Boston, it was the heyday of clubs like Buddies and the 1270 (anyone else remember those?), and Manray/Campus was just opening. All of those are gone...

 

It did feel like a very different time and culture back then. Maybe just because of my youth and the newness of feeling part of a "gay community" - maybe because, as others have said, the essence of visible gay society has changed so much since then. Even though, as I said, I wasn't really the prototype of the party-all-night gay cub dweller, lol, I'm still grateful that in those days I had such places to go when I felt the need. Now, I just don't feel that need so much.

[Rod Hagen]

I've always disliked bars, but nevertheless mourn them as their passing is part of a larger shift in the gay community, and culture at large, that I'm uncomfortable. There was once 4 gay bars in conservative Santa Barbara. There are none now.

[Decatur Guy]

I was never a big fan of going to bars. And sex clubs, hiring escorts and the Internet have pretty well killed any need to go to one now.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

I was never a big fan of going to bars. And sex clubs, hiring escorts and the Internet have pretty well killed any need to go to one now.

 

I don't like going to them by myself. Correction: I hate going to them by myself. But I think bars are fun in moderation, particularly the neighborhood sort that you'll find in New Orleans or on P Street in DC.

[bigvalboy]

I've always disliked bars, but nevertheless mourn them as their passing is part of a larger shift in the gay community, and culture at large, that I'm uncomfortable. There was once 4 gay bars in conservative Santa Barbara. There are none now.

 

True enough...as well as the two we lost in Ventura, but the flip side is, there are 15 within walking distance of you, that are crowded almost any given night...lol