Eye Opener

[axebahia]

OK boys, I need your advice. I had an escort experience tonight that made me think of giving it up. I had a "hot" agency escort who arrived with his wrists bandaged from trying to commit suicide after a whacking out on Coke. Should I have fucked him nonetheless? Did I? I could not make up my mind whether escorting was good or bad for his self-esteem, or good or bad for his recovery? Anyon else ever had a similar experience or similar doubts?

[Guest jwraustin]

Sorry to hear about that awful experience. I think the right thing to do is to decline the escort. While I am really sympathetic to the escort's delima, I think he is probably unstable, and you, as a client, shouldn't take the risk. I also would have a talk with the agency that sent him over. He really shouldn't be working.

 

 

Jon Dean

http://www.manfuck.net

[Guest DevonSFescort]

It's hard to know to what extent this escort's suicidal tendencies are directly related to his escorting, or whether his drug problems preceded his getting into escorting. That said, one of the LAST things I'd recommend for someone with a drug problem is an occupation which leaves him with a wide-open schedule and which pays quick infusions of cash. Especially one with a significant level of overlap with drugs.

 

Of course, a change of occupation is probably worth looking at for suicidal persons no matter what line of work they're in. But I don't think escorting in particular is a suitable profession for mentally unstable persons of any age.

[ready182]

While you were certainly under no obligation to do so, the "high road" answer would be for you to compensate him for his time as agreed, while at the same time being a good listener and trying to help him start to feel good about himself. Yes, this is the reverse of what a traditional escort-client rendevous should be, but if you have the means and compassion to help out someone who really needs it, you'll likely feel great in the morning.

 

Still Ready

[woodlawn]

>OK boys, I need your advice. I had an escort experience

>tonight that made me think of giving it up. I had a "hot"

>agency escort who arrived with his wrists bandaged from trying

>to commit suicide after a whacking out on Coke. Should I have

>fucked him nonetheless? Did I?

 

First, if this is something that already happened, why do you need advice? Are you thinking of having him over again?

 

Second, how do you know that is the explanation for the bandages? You are telling us he came right out and said he slashed his wrists while out of his mind on drugs? Isn't that rather an odd thing for someone to say who is trying to sell you his services?

 

As to your question, it depends on whether you think you should take any responsibility for facilitating another person's destructive choices. If you were an escort, for example, would you accept a client who you know is married and is cheating on his wife? If you think you deserve no blame for helping someone to do something he chooses to do and that will result in hurting him or others, then I suppose there's no reason for you to concern yourself with the problems of the escort you describe. By deciding that what he chooses to do isn't good for him, aren't you "infantilizing" him?

 

 

> I could not make up my mind

>whether escorting was good or bad for his self-esteem, or good

>or bad for his recovery?

 

Is it clear that being a hooker led him to become an addict? In many cases it is the other way around; addicts have few ways to support their habits other than stealing, dealing and hooking.

 

>Anyon else ever had a similar

>experience or similar doubts?

 

My own policy is to keep well away from addicts, whatever business they may be in. In my experience, there is little or nothing you can do that will actually help an addict; the best you can do is to avoid anything that might make his situation worse.

[+ Lucky]

"My own policy is to keep well away from addicts"

 

Yet another woodie policy. How about keeping away from guys who are addicted to posting on an Internet website about escorts?

[axebahia]

>First, if this is something that already happened, why do you

>need advice? Are you thinking of having him over again?

 

You never know when it could happen again. Actually, it had crossed my mind to have him back. Basically, he was a nice kid, and a very hot escort!

 

>Second, how do you know that is the explanation for the

>bandages? You are telling us he came right out and said he

>slashed his wrists while out of his mind on drugs? Isn't that

>rather an odd thing for someone to say who is trying to sell

>you his services?

 

Yes, that's why I sought advice here. Obviously, I have no way of checking the story beyond calling the agency, but it did not seem out of character given other self-destructive comments he made in passing, timing issues with his pics on the web site and his relationship with the agency which did not seem to be a good one.

[axebahia]

>Of course, a change of occupation is probably worth looking at

>for suicidal persons no matter what line of work they're in.

>But I don't think escorting in particular is a suitable

>profession for mentally unstable persons of any age.

 

But you ducked the question whether I should have fucked him nonetheless? I am interested in your thoughts here.

[axebahia]

>While you were certainly under no obligation to do so, the

>"high road" answer would be for you to compensate him for his

>time as agreed, while at the same time being a good listener

>and trying to help him start to feel good about himself.

 

OK, I admit it. I can't keep the suspense up. I listened first to put him at ease, and then I fucked him. I actually had a great time, but I do worry about him. I am tempted to call the agency and suggest that he should not work - not because of quality of services because he was a great fuck - but because I think he may be "unstable". But then again, I am not a doctor as Woody says, and who knows how he might react to losing his income source. Perhaps, this is a mind my own bees wax, but not hire him again situation.

[Guest]

>OK boys, I need your advice. I had an escort experience

>tonight that made me think of giving it up. I had a "hot"

>agency escort who arrived with his wrists bandaged from trying

>to commit suicide after a whacking out on Coke. Should I have

>fucked him nonetheless? Did I? I could not make up my mind

>whether escorting was good or bad for his self-esteem, or good

>or bad for his recovery? Anyon else ever had a similar

>experience or similar doubts?

 

Well, while there are some "functioning addicts" who can support their addiction with high-paying jobs (like the cousin of a friend of mine pulled in a good 6-figure income while living in a rat-hole), most addicts have to get their money from stealing, whoring, or drug-dealing. As a doctor, I have to be alert to this and try to avoid getting involved. For example, it's not uncommon for coke addicts to present to the doctor with back problems requesting Vicodin. They sell the vicodin in exchange for their coke (at least that's part of their money). I'll get a drug screen, and they have cocaine but no vicodin in their system--and it's curtains for them as far as I'm concerned.

Then I have the whores who come in with what I call the "three for one": the clap, trich, and chlamydia. What some people will pay for I never understand. The straight guys and REALLY ugly bitches have to end up stealing.

Trust me--the drug addiction probably preceded the whoring by quite some time. He probably managed to piss off all of his friends, family, and employers to get to this point. His suicidal thoughts are understandable. The best thing you could have done would have been to point him to Narcotics Anonymous or a suicide hotline. At some point, these guys do feel they hit bottom, and then go into rehab. Until they relapse again because they feel they'll be able to control it this time.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Sigh

 

You know, Axe, I think you have, at least as far as escorts are concerned, a sense of compassion and genuine interest in the escorts you hire as individuals as opposed to as just sexual partners. Nonetheless, some of your questions are purely questions that only you can truly answer yourself.

 

You are the person who will live with the consequences of your actions (and failures to act). You are individual who needs to live with the moral and ethical outcomes of the decisions you make every day. As an attorney, you are obviously aware that actions have consequences, including failing to act. You are also clearly aware that each side in a situation may feel that the course of action is correct and that another party may have wronged them or failed to act as is either appropriate or was agreed.

 

I think Devon gave you a very sensible, honest and straight-forward answer. Whether or not you should have proceeded as you in fact did is a question soley to determine for yourself.

 

If you slept well afterwards, then by your standards you did the right thing; if you did not, then you need to reevaluate why and proceed accordingly.

 

But this is a path for you alone, and while I do not think you should refrain from soliciting the opinions of others, no one can nor should tell you how to act, judge your actions, or advise you otherwise.

[+ Lucky]

"Then I have the whores who come in"

 

As opposed to the escorts who come in?

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>But you ducked the question whether I should have fucked him

>nonetheless? I am interested in your thoughts here.

 

I did sort of sigh when I saw that you had fucked him, and then I chuckled because I loved how you broke down and confessed, and because "listening, then fucking him" sounds like something my ex would do. Hey, at least you did listen to him, he might have enjoyed getting fucked by you, and at least he got paid. I hope he did enjoy it and it brought his mood up a little; that he left the encounter feeling a little less like he wishes he were dead. If some kind of compassion got through, then I'm glad he got you and not someone else (although that, too, would depend on "who else"). If he got the feeling that you were just listening for the minimum amount of time you felt was polite and then you kind of nudged him along to the sex...not so good. One could take the position that by going through with the appointment you were encouraging him to keep up with a lifestyle that doesn't seem to be working for him, but on the other hand, you didn't know him, you weren't expecting this, and it's putting a little too much pressure on your encounter to expect whatever decision you made to turn his life around.

 

And to be honest I don't know what to tell you to do at this point. On the one hand, how can you NOT tell the agency; of course they need to know if one of their escorts is this close to the edge. On the other hand, you're right that losing his only source of income could push him over the edge. I understand people's point that addicts have to reach rock bottom before they change, but when someone has just attempted suicide I don't know that pulling the rug out from under them is the thing to do at precisely that time.

 

See how murky that answer is? No wonder I ducked the question.

[jack]

Absurd. I'd not allow him to enter the room dismissing him immediately and promptly calling the agency. Life is too short. The guy needs professional help.

 

I hire escorts at least twice a month. Are you guys for real. Fucking . . . talking with . .. as though you're operating a clinic for mentally disabled which you the wind up paying for (now who'se really crazy) while exposing yourself to a situation which could in a heart beat become uncontrollably dangerous. :-(

[axebahia]

RE: Sigh

 

>If you slept well afterwards, then by your standards you did

>the right thing; if you did not, then you need to reevaluate

>why and proceed accordingly.

>

>But this is a path for you alone, and while I do not think you

>should refrain from soliciting the opinions of others, no one

>can nor should tell you how to act, judge your actions, or

>advise you otherwise.

 

Oh, I don't agree at all. We live in a community on and off-line. That is precisely the kind of moral relativism and self-centred pyscho-babble that has led to the break down of the bounds of community. Whether I can or do follow advice received is, of course, another thing, but how the elements of analysis and process of analysis is something that is properly the subject for comment in any community.

[axebahia]

>Absurd. I'd not allow him to enter the room dismissing him

>immediately and promptly calling the agency. Life is too

>short. The guy needs professional help.

>

>I hire escorts at least twice a month. Are you guys for real.

> Fucking . . . talking with . .. as though you're operating a

>clinic for mentally disabled which you the wind up paying for

>(now who'se really crazy) while exposing yourself to a

>situation which could in a heart beat become uncontrollably

>dangerous. :-(

 

It occurs to me that my initial email may have sounded like he slit his wrists right before coming over. I have a mind that he said six weeks ago. At ant rate the bandages were not at all subtle, and it occurs to me that the agency may well have known already. How, if at all, does the element of time affect the analysis?

 

I must say, at the very least, my anger is with the agency for sending him over if they knew in advance. I would like to them that, but as I say I would hate for him to go over the edge because of it.

[Will]

I'd associate myself with Woodie and Unicorn on this one. Both of them give wise advice, and from different viewpoints.

 

Like Woodie I avoid having anything to do with people who are drunk, high, or whatever you want to call it. It's not for me to say whether they're addicts, but I'm also convinced that an addict who's recently used his drug, no matter what he says or how he acts, is not interested in any form of help other than access to the next drink/fix/whatever. I'm never sure what I would do if I were in a situation I've never been in before, but speaking for myself, if an escort showed up in the shape you describe, sex with him would be a lose/lose situation.

 

As a doctor, Unicorn's experience is useful. Like him, I'd imagine that the addiction came long before the prostitution, and that the latter is in the service of the former. Thus, if it weren't repellent enough -- for me -- to think about having sex with somebody who's clearly not all there, my personal ethic would discourage me from knowingly supporting what is, after all, a life-threatening medical condition.

 

In summary, I guess I'd say that I don't think I'd want to have sex with somebody in the shape that escort was in. If he wanted to talk, and I wanted to talk, I'd talk with him. But I wouldn't pay him. If he wanted to talk and I didn't want to talk, I'd send him away, followed by a call to the agency. The purpose of my call would be to alert the agency that it has an active addict on its list, that such a thing is hardly professional, and that it might want to try to help this kid by getting him to a recovery program.

[axebahia]

>In summary, I guess I'd say that I don't think I'd want to

>have sex with somebody in the shape that escort was in. If he

>wanted to talk, and I wanted to talk, I'd talk with him. But

>I wouldn't pay him. If he wanted to talk and I didn't want to

>talk, I'd send him away, followed by a call to the agency.

>The purpose of my call would be to alert the agency that it

>has an active addict on its list, that such a thing is hardly

>professional, and that it might want to try to help this kid

>by getting him to a recovery program.

 

I don't think, he is an active addict. Before I asked about the bandages, as I always do, I offered him a drink. He chose OJ, and declined anything alcholic. He did not appear to be on drugs.

 

As I clarified above, the bandages while visible (they looked at first like tennis wrist cuffs, and first I just thought it was a peculiar fashion accessory, until I realized that they were bandages) but the wound was inflicted some time earlier. Would you still have sent him away once he explained the rationale for the bandages? At least, he was honest, no? He could have lied, and sometimes I think he should have done so since from a client's perspective his past suicide is really none of my business. But then again, I probably would not have believed a fake story, and ended up mistrusting him more thus increasing the likelihood that I would have sent him away.

 

He also said that when he woke up, he could not believe what he had done, and realized that what ever problems he had were temporary and that at age 20, he had much to live for. He also disclosed plans to move away to join his BF. He did seem like a guy on the mend. If the wounds had been fresh, I probably would have sent him away too.

[woodlawn]

>"My own policy is to keep well away from addicts"

 

>Yet another woodie policy. How about keeping away from guys

>who are addicted to posting on an Internet website about

>escorts?

 

Since I don't go on gay cruises or gay package tours, hang out at hustler bars, bathhouses or "adult bookstores," go to crappy, mass-market Hollywood movies, or spend time in parks or men's rooms where those who like public sex cruise each other, there's not much chance I'll run into you.

[Flower]

Post 1

>I had an escort experience tonight that made me think of giving it up.

For, one brief, shiney moment, anyway. Good thing you didn't act on impulse!

 

I had a "hot" agency escort who arrived with his wrists bandaged from trying to commit suicide after a whacking out on Coke. Should I have fucked him

>nonetheless? Did I? I could not make up my mind whether escorting was

>good or bad for his self-esteem, or good or bad for his recovery?

 

 

> At least, he was honest, no? He

>could have lied, and sometimes I think he should have done so

>since from a client's perspective his past suicide is really

>none of my business.

 

 

I know -- isn't it terrrible how human pain and misery can get in the way of a good time, especially when we as clients would rather pretend it's not there and we don't contribute to it

>He also said that when he woke up, he could not believe what

>he had done, what--in letting you fuck him?and realized that what ever problems he had were

>temporary and that at age 20, he had much to live for.

 

Well certainly, as a legal adult, he was old enough to make life long decisions and take the consequences so certainly not your problem is it--and all the more so since he was on the mend. Of course, you fucking him could only BOOST his self esteem. You were a great help to this boi on his road to recovery. He probably should have paid you.

>He also disclosed plans to move away to join his BF. He did seem

>like a guy on the mend. If the wounds had been fresh, I

>probably would have sent him away too.

 

I agree--there is nothing like seeping blood from slashed wrists of a young boi attempting suicide to make your dick go limp--it surly would have spoiled your encounter. It's so nice you were spared the trauma of witnessing such an event.

 

You're such a classy guy :+

[axebahia]

>

>Of course, you fucking him could only BOOST his self

>esteem. You were a great help to this boi on his road to

>recovery. He probably should have paid you.

>

 

The thought did cross my mind!

[bluenix]

>

>Before I asked about the bandages, as I always do...

>

 

What was the name of the agency again?

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

I hate to belabor the obvious

 

But I fail to see how the comments you quoted in my post can be viewed as either self-centered or moral relativism.

 

There certainly are ethical and moral community standards, based on religion, the law, tradition, popular culture, and a variety of other factors. In this particular instance, you clearly knew that by certain standards, how you proceed would be judged as a violation of certain of those ethical and moral standards; yet you proceeded to act accordingly in spite of this awareness. If you are simply seeking absolution now, my comments hold even more so.

 

Your actions, failures to act, and reasonings for same, can all be viewed in a number of prisms. No one prism can be called either the ultimate arbitrator nor the only possible, true alternative.

 

There is absolutely nothing relative about this. I judge my own actions and I sleep quiet well each night in the knowledge that by the standards I believe and accept to be true, I have done my best to behave in accordance thereon. While I often value and seek both the opinions and assistance of others in determining both the proper path and the appropriate actions, ultimately, I and I alone must both accept, live with and conduct my own life.

[axebahia]

RE: I hate the obvious

 

>In this particular instance, you

>clearly knew that by certain standards, how you proceed would

>be judged as a violation of certain of those ethical and moral

>standards; yet you proceeded to act accordingly in spite of

>this awareness. If you are simply seeking absolution now, my

>comments hold even more so.

 

No, I am trying to figure outt what those standards might be in the circumstances

 

>No one prism can be

>called either the ultimate arbitrator nor the only possible,

>true alternative.

 

And you see moral relativism in that position?

 

>There is absolutely nothing relative about this. I judge my

>own actions and I sleep quiet well each night in the knowledge

>that by the standards I believe and accept to be true, I have

>done my best to behave in accordance thereon.

 

And you see nothing self-centred in this?

[axebahia]

RE: I hate the obvious

 

Just to clarify, I meant:

 

>>No one prism can be

>>called either the ultimate arbitrator nor the only possible,

>>true alternative.

>

>And you see no moral relativism in that position?