An Appeal to Hooboy

[guptasa1]

I agree. I miss these people. I feel they had a lot to add, despite not always agreeing with some of them. And I feel like they were sometimes treated unfairly as well. I'd like to see them all allowed back as I valued what they each had to say. It's fine to have rules and enforce them, but this seemed very sudden without clear violations. I'd like to see all of 'em get their priveleges restored.

[giovoni]

I let the other thread go but since it's been brought up again here goes. I agree with Trixie. Not because I feel like any of these people are a part of a family or that their views NEED to be here. The fact is that they will come back sooner or later under different names.

 

What will be dangerous then is that perhaps the censorship that they have endured will train them to advance their ideas in a more docile, less offensive way. In this way it will be tougher for me and others to weed out those ideas which are obviously motivated by bitterness, anger and hatred. When they were allowed to spew whatever they wanted in whatever manner they wanted this was an easy proposition.

 

Certain members of this board make me seriously think about what I believe when they disagree with me. The first and so far most convincing to me is/was Woodlawn. I know he's had run ins with other members but with me he has without exception never initiated insults and has only answered my arguments with respect and logic. Certain other posters whom I don't need to name were reliable in that when they disagreed with me I was almost absolutely sure that my views were probably more right then not. Almost without exception as well their disagreements were peppered with the words 'fucking, moron, vile, stupid, etc.'

 

Training these people to disguise their bitterness and hatred in a way that is 'acceptable' here does nobody any good.

 

Go in Denver

[Flower]

In the words of one of my favorite posters:

 

yeah...what they said!!!!!!@@@@****&&&& :7

[Guest ortrud45]

Good morning everybody

 

I disagree: I don't miss them at all!

 

The constant ranting, name-calling, "You said - I said", "I'm right -

you'r wrong (but of course they would not say "you'r wrong", but words

like assh..., f... off a s o, is not rewarding, but tiring and does not bring value to this site and its discussions/debates.

 

And I would like to add, that Ethan/DCBoy was already once expelled before and seemingly has not learned his lesson at all: so he is a

"repetitive offender", had a second chance.

 

I strongly believe in a civil way of dealing with eachothers which

does not mean that we can not have different outlooks and opinions

on various subjects.

 

Just my 2 cents, have a pleasant day!

ortrud45

[Guest Utopia]

Trix in one post (thread) you make a plea for a kinder message center then here you ask to allow the main offenders back in? Your post confuses me.

 

I am THRILLED they are gone though I am sure they will be back. It isn't hard to make it back in here if they really want to. Meanwhile things have been so pleasant lately around these parts lately I am just going to enjoy it for now.

[guptasa1]

I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction to want more civil posts but less censorship at the same time.

 

I'm all for more civilized, well-thought-out, and polite messages. I'm not, however, for censorship, and at least I personally don't see why some of these offenders were banned.

 

I simply feel like more is taken away than added. The message center just doesn't seem quite as interesting without these people.

 

Some of them have pretty strong personalities and opinions to be sure, but that makes things interesting in my opinion.

[Trixie]

Guptasa pretty much sums it up in his wise post. I had to go back and look to see how I'd commented on Hooboy's New Year's Wish, and I don't think I am being hypocritical in asking for these people's return.

I may not like some things they say, but they are free to say it, and I am convinced that they are convinced in their beliefs. I may not like the names they call me, but here the childhood rhyme comes to play, (Sticks and stones...).

I would like to see certain people respond more intelligently (including myself, sometimes), but on the other hand I wouldn't personally banish them if they failed to do so. I would only continue to respond as best I could. With integrity, and hopefully a bit o' sass. Failing that, I would simply abandon the post. It's not like walking away from an abusive argument on this message center will change world history!

But again, I must also add that this message board is not truly a public forum. It is the private property of Hooboy, and he (or she) can do as they wish. And we will abide by it. Censorship is too strong a word for a private message board like this.

I am merely asking for a little forgiveness, a little space, and a wee bit o' sense of humor for those who play the game differently.

Trix

[Guest fukamarine]

>I am merely asking for a little forgiveness, a little space,

>and a wee bit o' sense of humor for those who play the game

>differently.

>Trix

 

Trix - there is basically nothing wrong with you above expressed sentiment. However it does stretch one's tollerance level to put up with the slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to in order to make a point.

In my opinion we have lost nothing of value.

 

fukamarine

[Guest jeffOH]

>Trix - there is basically nothing wrong with you above

>expressed sentiment. However it does stretch one's tollerance

>level to put up with the slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to

>in order to make a point.

>In my opinion we have lost nothing of value.

>

>fukamarine

 

I think that anything that would encourage more participation by a wider variety of posters on this message center is a good thing. Some poster's "personalities" simply aren't conducive to any real conversation. It's part of the crude, rude, Jerry Springer-ization of our society.

 

I look at this site as Hooboy's home. It's his party. I appreciate his hospitality. Had it been my party, I'd have shown some of these annoying, buzz-kill types the door a LONG time ago. I say, good for you Hooboy! I admire a man with a nice set of balls.:9

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[Guest jeffOH]

>... but is it really a "conversation" if everyone must first

>agree in order to participate?

 

No, but I have "real" conversations face-to-face with people all day long without getting into name-calling, shout-fests for the entertainment of the dumbed down masses. I don't like confrontation, but if I, as I have numerous times, am attacked first, will counter that attack. It's a tedious waste of energy, physically and spiritually. I think it's most often possible to have civil discussions EVEN when you're in disagreement with someone.

 

I'll admit that there were a few posters on whom I'd click to latest their latest rant. Most got repetitive very quickly...this one's a know-it-all who has to have the last word, this one's abusive with his words(ooh, how clever!), colorful characters? Sure, they are. But, why should this site be any different from entering someone's home. I simply don't feel that it's censorship at all if Hooboy doesn't like the manner in which some posters conduct themselves. They can spew forth all they want, wherever they want. Hooboy apparently doesn't want that sort of atmostphere here and I applaud him on his decision.:-)

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[Guest ortrud45]

Jeff, I'm in total agreement with you and I second every word of your

post!:9

BRAVO! :*

 

Have a pleasant, no , a great day!

ortrud45

 

P.S: Why is Ohio so far from Europe? I kiss, you kiss, we all kiss...

for good fucks (tune: I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice-

cream).

[KY_TOP]

I did not reply to Hooboy's original appeal for civility because I have mixed views on the "Lock out" of certain posters that are the apparent offenders. I completely agree that we all can express our opinions and disagree without resorting to name calling, personal attacks and childish High School slurs. I think this was all that Hooboy was asking for.

 

For me the issue raises many questions that I don't have the answers to and that is why I have a mixed view. Some are:

 

How many chances to you give a person after asking them to post within certain boundries?

 

How many posters have completely quit posting, adding comments just as valuable as those locked out, but left this site because of the name calling and personal attack that they immediately received just for expressing their opinion?

(I guarantee that more have been chased from this site than have been locked out. Just take a look at how many pre-2002 or 2003 posters are regular contributors to this forum.)

 

Who are more valuable to this site, those chased off or those locked out?

 

Hooboy has said many times he is behind on reviews, the main source of this site. How much time should he have to spend moderating the name calling and taking his time away from this sites main content?

 

The moderators are volunteers. I know some, if not all, are employed and making a living for themselves comes before their moderating duties. Does one expect them to have to live on this site just so they can filter out the name calling? And then to be called names themselves for trying to control the vile? (Calling someone a dickhead is one thing, calling them a Brown Shirted Nazi is something else.) How much time should one expect a volunteer to spend moderating?

 

Solutions?

 

I felt the best solution, which I had suggested weeks ago, was for the posters here to ignore and not respond to the personal attacks and name calling. If you didn't respond they usually felt they got that much needed last word and the thread would die before it exploded.(Some times I think the name calling was a way for at least one person to draw attention to theirself.) Responding in kind just poured on fuel adding to the explosion. But it was obvious too many here cannot let a personal attack pass without comment and I can understand that too.

 

When I first came here, if you were moderated your post had to be cleared by a moderator before it would appear and only unmoderated posters had their post immediately go up. Even though it could take hours for the post to be cleared, and by then sometimes seem outdated to the debate, is this still a possibilty? Is this "censoring" of the post before it ever appears? Is that a reasonable solution?

 

For many are the "Cat Fights" and name calling what they enjoy about reading the Message Center and what they actually looked forward to on their daily visit?

 

As I said, I have more questions than answers on the subject. Do I miss some of the locked out posters? Yes and No. I enjoyed some of their thoughts but hated the name calling that too many times resulted and the hijacking or endless post on a thread just to get the last word.

 

Do I wish they could return? ????

 

Can they stop the Name Calling and personal attacks?

 

Also I don't just consider this Hooboy's site, I consider it his Property. How would I want my property that I control to appear?

[Doug69]

>It would seem, as far as I can tell, that certain posters have

>been kicked off this message-board within the past month or

>so, due to their big mouths. Ethan, Doug69, Axebahia to name

>the ones I am aware of.

 

Thanks for the sentiments, Trixie - but I have not "been kicked off this message board." My not posting here in the past several days was not due to the fact that I was kicked off. I wasn't and haven't been kicked off.

 

Ethan and Axehbia certainly have been, and I agree entirely with your call for their reinstatement (although I must confess that there is something rather sickening, horrifying even, about watching adults, especially gay adults, kneel and make begging "appeals" to the authorities to reverse censosrhip decisions - not out of principle, i.e. that censorship is wrong, but out of "geneorsity" in the New Year), and it's far more sickening to watch other gay adults - who one would think would have an instinctive repulsion to censorship - defend it and cheer it based on the petty fact that it's directed at someone they dislike, rather than at themselves (this time). But the number of gay adults here who not only tolerate but cheer on censorship - and pretned that it's not censorship - is as revealing as it is scary.

 

But as a result of your well-intentioned error, I did enjoy that lurid benefit that people have historically craved of being present at one's own funeral to see what others say.

 

And one of the most hilarlious things I have ever seen is to read the posts of posters such as JeffOH in this thread who have defended the expulsions of these members because they do so hate incivility - even though I have seen the most vulgar, hateful, ugly personal insults and attacks coming from such posters - far worse than any I have ever seen from the posters whose expulsions they have defended.

 

And I think to myself: Could Osama bin Laden get up and preach about how it's so evil to kill innocent civilians and cheer when those who do are punished?

 

Could Britney Spears get up and preach about how it's so evil to engage in frivolous marriages and cheer when those who do are punished?

 

Could Bill Clinton get up and preach about how it's so evil to have extramarital affairs and cheer when those who do are punished?

 

One wouldn't think so. And yet here is this thread where some of the most vulgarity-laden, insult-spewing posters are preaching about how evil incivility is and defending punishment against those who do it.

[Doug69]

>Trix - there is basically nothing wrong with you above

>expressed sentiment. However it does stretch one's tollerance

>level to put up with the slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to

>in order to make a point.

 

This post - a proclamation of how certain insults are just so extreme that they become intolerable - is from a poster with a history of calling other posters with whom he disagrees "syphlytic lesions" and telling them that he would celebrate their death if it came early - and lots of others just like that.

 

How is it possible that the same person can say:

 

(1) "You are a syphlytic lesion and have no value as a human being and I will be so happy when you're dead."

 

(2) "It does stretch one's tollerance level to put up with the slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to in order to make a point."

 

There is never a time when censorship tools aren't used by these sorts of people as a weapon NOT to enforce "civility standards," but to target people they don't like and suppress content they dislike. Are there really gay people who haven't learned this and still defend censorship as long as it's not directed towards them? Amazing.

[HooBoy]

Folks, I am listening. That's all I want to say for now.

 

On a positive note, the posting of pictures feature is back. Please be sensitive to other's people's feelings when you post and no more abuse. And never, ever every post children, but I know you know. Just wanted to say it.

 

Also, I turned on the edit feature. I'm going to give it a try. In case you write something in a heated moment, you'll have one hour to go back and edit it okay?

 

If that is abused -- as it was in the past, it will disappear. But I have faith in you and I am very proud of what this group has accomplished. I learn a lot from you guys. I would post more often, but I fret for hours over every sentence and it is only time issue for me.

 

So enjoy the improvements. And I laughed aloud when one poster wrote that he thought the site was boring because certain people were missing. He listed the folks many have written to me to say were the most obnoxious, hateful people in the MESSAGE CENTER.

 

So, we can't please everyone and I'm sure those missing folks will find a way to weasel back in. They always have and our 3 month cycles of flame out will resume again.

 

Ain't life great! I'm just hoping I can get to one of the HOoville meetings in one of the great cities they're in.

 

Thank you again....

 

And I just would like to say, "Jane you ignorant slut."

 

Sorry, its a non-sequiter, but I've been dying to be nasty so I can wring my hands today, apologize tomorrow......

 

:)

[+ Lucky]

RE: An Appealing Decision by Hooboy

 

Pictures are back! IF I had one, the first pic I would post is one of me hugging Hooboy! Thanks!

[Rick Munroe]

>to target people they don't like and suppress

>content they dislike.

 

Sounds like the Patriot Act.

[Guest fukamarine]

>>Trix - there is basically nothing wrong with you above

>>expressed sentiment. However it does stretch one's

>tollerance

>>level to put up with the slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to

>>in order to make a point.

>

>This post - a proclamation of how certain insults are just so

>extreme that they become intolerable - is from a poster with a

>history of calling other posters with whom he disagrees

>"syphlytic lesions" and telling them that he would celebrate

>their death if it came early - and lots of others just like

>that.

>

>How is it possible that the same person can say:

>

>(1) "You are a syphlytic lesion and have no value as a human

>being and I will be so happy when you're dead."

>

>(2) "It does stretch one's tollerance level to put up with the

>slurs Ethan and Doug 69 resorted to in order to make a

>point."

>

>There is never a time when censorship tools aren't used by

>these sorts of people as a weapon NOT to enforce "civility

>standards," but to target people they don't like and suppress

>content they dislike. Are there really gay people who haven't

>learned this and still defend censorship as long as it's not

>directed towards them? Amazing.

 

So sayeth the member who simply HAS to have the LAST WORD or he'll just die!!! And who many of us are convinced is Woodlawn using yet another nom de plume.

 

fukamarine

[Guest Norm De Plume]

>So sayeth the member who simply HAS to have the LAST WORD or

>he'll just die!!! And who many of us are convinced is

>Woodlawn using yet another nom de plume.

 

I am not Woodlawn...I am me! 8-)

[Guest Norm De Plume]

Censorship?

 

Censorship? Excuse me? Your on a message center talking about M4M Escorting and talking about Censorship?

 

Forgive me, but from what I can see, the only "Censorship" I've seen, was from people that wasn't following the rules. If anything, I continually surprised with what Hooboy puts up with. I certainly wouldn't be as tolerant!

 

Let's think about this. Hooboy spends thousands of dollars to put up a really useful site. The moderators put in hundreds of hours making it a reasonable place to interact and people have the right to walk right in and piss in the corner and shit on the table?

 

I don't think so. If people can't have a vigorous debate without resorting to petty personal insults, we're missing absolutely nothing if they go away.

 

As Trixie would say: "That's my story, and I'm sticking to it".

[Guest msclonly]

Hooey,

 

Keep up the GQQD Work!

 

Don't give up!

 

 

Cheers!

 

[guptasa1]

RE: Censorship?

 

I admit censorship might be too strong, or perhaps simply the wrong, word, and I should have used a more accurate one (though I'm not exactly sure what that would be).

 

I just feel that several of the people who have posted that they're glad these posters are gone are being a tad hypocritical. I don't particularly care to name names, but several have also insulted and degraded people as well as participate in the namecalling. I'm sure I haven't been the perfect poster either - not many people are perfect in everything they post. But, the fact is, some of the people who are glad these people are gone have engaged in the same behavior.

 

It simply seems to me that there is a bias and people with some more unique viewpoints are treated more severely than others just because...well...because people don't like what they have to say as well. Sometimes I don't like what some of the people say here, but in my opinion, they have every right to say it (I'm not talking about insults; I'm talking ideas.) And I don't feel some more popular users should be excused for making insults while others are denied access for the very same thing.

 

As far as getting rid of insults, I don't know the answer. I think if self-editing is used properly, it could be a major boon and go a long way towards helping with that when people cool down.

[Guest fukamarine]

>>So sayeth the member who simply HAS to have the LAST WORD

>or

>>he'll just die!!! And who many of us are convinced is

>>Woodlawn using yet another nom de plume.

>

>I am not Woodlawn...I am me! 8-)

 

And I said NOM...... not NORM

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Censorship?

 

>As Trixie would say: "That's my story, and I'm sticking to

>it".

 

Your absolutely sure that it's Trixie that says that, right?

 

 

fukamarine

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Censorship?

 

>But, the fact is, some of the people

>who are glad these people are gone have engaged in the same

>behavior.

 

Sure we have, but if someone has just called you a "fuckin' shit-stuffed turd it's rather hard to ignore them.

 

Replying or defending ones self is one thing - it's quite another to start the mud slinging!

 

fukamarine

 

fukamine: I too have my heated moments and I want to get those thoughts (because they are so fucking right -eh? - Well I have to get those thoughts up there RIGHT FUCKING NOW..i'LL SHOW THAT (THOSE) FUCKING....yada yada...

 

A few minutes later, you may thing of differnet words to use, other clear and consise verbiage which atg the same time will enhanced your post, yet know drag youself into the pig pen.

 

 

 

So NOW, uyou go to your post, click on edit and revise it.

 

Maybe then, you did not take your balls and disgust them by slinging them all over our living room but you -----very much like me - AND OTHERS HERE, got to thinking -- "IF ONLY...."

 

We can make it happen and for everyone reading this FORGET THE PAST.

 

THE PAST IS HOTORY. IT IS GONE

I appprciate your imput Fuck a marine. If you look at the crap I posted when I first wen up, you would puke.