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Guest DevonSFescort
Posted

As long as I'm, by VaHawk's gleeful account, "self-destructing," I might as well take the action to a new thread where I can go out in a blaze of glory. As I understand it, my critics on the 'Taking Control of Escort Rates' thread take issue chiefly with two things: the fact that I don't negotiate my rates and the fact that I entered into a protracted and barbed exchange with someone I had previously rather liked, who I thought, and continue to think, "knows" me better than to paint the repugnant caricature.

 

Okay, fair enough. I utilize a pricing policy you don't agree with, and when provoked I can be extremely argumentative. It would be reasonable to suggest that I strike back with greater than necessary force in the occasional scuffles I get into on this message center.

 

My question: stacked up against what you know about me, via either my diary, my reviews, my overall posting history on this message center, or some combination thereof, are those two -- for the sake of argument, let's call them faults, though I have, unsurprisingly, a different take on them -- SO awful as to warrant the vehemence of the bile directed at me in that thread? swallows22 wouldn't hire me for an hour to avoid castration, though it's not clear whether that's because I speak too harshly to (don't look now) anonymous message board screen name personae, whose reputations and livelihood cannot be harmed by anything I say, or because he wouldn't be able to talk me down to a cheaper price for this dick-saving appointment. Am I the only person to whom this reaction seems disproportionate?

 

VaHawk's seething hatred for me needed two posts to spread out in, and I have little doubt that soon those two posts will come to seem too confining. After comparing me to a pig in putrid shit, he immediately proceeded to lecture me for showing no class, accused me of "denigrating clients" without producing A SHRED of evidence, pirated my Benjamin ventriloquist act verbatim, taking a self-deprecating joke and turning it into a mean-spirited parting shot in his first reply to me.

 

I'm sorry. That was actually his SECOND reply to me in that thread. The first, of course, was to praise my post defending Benjamin against the EXACT SAME CHARGES from THE EXACT SAME ACCUSER who, as it happens, has met neither one of us, and to thank me for not accusing him of being a BN cheerleader. I guess one thing VaHawk and I can agree on is that it's a good thing lighthouse waited to trigger my "self-destruction" until I'd had a chance publicly to defend BN from the very charges that were later turned on me, to the unconcealed glee of VaHawk:

 

"I LOVE how he got Devon to self-destruct on the mc!"

 

Charming, isn't it? How much do you have to hate someone you've never met to take pure, unadulterated schadenfreude in his perceived self-destruction? Again, don't bother looking for a shred of evidence in VaHawk's post indicating why he finds such fault with me. There isn't any, only an attempt to cast aspersions on the opinion of a fellow poster with the audacity to (gasp) take an interest in hiring me, despite the fact that he'd have to skip a perfectly good haggling session and overlook the fact that sometimes I get a little heated in expressing my views on what is, after all, supposed to be a message center. (My thanks to BuckyXTC for his kind words.) As VaHawk of ALL people should know, people blow off steam on message centers. Myself included. That's partly what they're there for. Even the most mild-mannered human beings (and I would count myself among them) do have aggressive streaks, and it seems to me that a message board, contrary to being an unseemly or inappropriate place to ventilate them, is one of the best places, precisely because most of the posters there ARE anonymous. It sure beats road rage.

 

In my case, the tangles I get into always seem to be with lawyers, probably because -- and I guess this must be some kind of fatal flaw to some of you -- I kind of get a kick out of sparring with lawyers. I know this is strange for people who place a high premium on conflict avoidance at all times on message center, but I actually ENJOY making, developing, and defending an argument, and I enjoy learning from that process too, which is why I reverse myself, as I did recently on the gay marriage v. civil unions issue, when I come to believe I am wrong. Lawyers tend to be the best of the best at vigorous argument, so it's kind of a hoot for a guy who never even got his BFA to go a few rounds every now and then with one or more of them. Part of the lawyerly style, let's face it, includes rhetorical low blows, reaches for the juggler and competition for the last word. I'm sorry that that offends some of you, but please put aside your conditioned reaction long enough to consider that it may not always be an entirely bad thing. Even the squabbles woodlawn and I get into. Whereas Doug69 and I respect each other, woodlawn and I don't, and it shows in our exchanges, and while, on the one hand, that's too bad, on the other hand it does sometimes ensure that opposing points of view on important issues get a thorough airing. Take our arguments about HIV/AIDS: the fact is, even though we were doing so partly in the service of trashing each other, we BOTH made important points that NEED to be made in any serious conversation about HIV/AIDS. People complained that we were being unseemly, but that thread got a ton of hits and important, counterbalancing messages about AIDS got discussed and viewed, arguably more widely than they would otherwise have been. And who knows? Maybe woodlawn and I were both a little nicer to be around in person after having gotten a little aggression out of our systems.

 

I find it fascinating that there are actually clients out there who would use their opinion of how well or poorly an escort handled a smear on his reputation to determine what he must be like to spend time with in bed or over dinner or drinks. "My goodness, if he lashes out like that when his name's being dragged through the mud by someone who's never meet him, I SHUDDER to think what he must be like with someone who likes him enough to pay willingly the fee he asks!" Is there anyone on this message center who can honestly claim NEVER to have responded too harshly to a perceived attack? Would they like the sum of their work to be judged in light of how they reacted on that occasion?

 

What I find even more incredible is that people who praised Benjamin for his post accusing lighthouse of spreading "bullshit" and creating posts for the purpose of stirring up trouble were by and large nowhere to be found when the same poster launched the same attacks on another escort. Except, of course, for VaHawk, who should have been the FIRST to defend me, but instead took malicious joy in my alleged self-destruction. The double standard is truly breathtaking. (Memo to Doug69: is your use of the term "rancid, nauseating hypocrisy" copyrighted? If not I'd like to trot it out here.) Yes, I guess you could argue that Benjamin was "classier" for not continuing to reply, but he didn't have to because there was a chorus of support for him. I should know. I was in it. I hope that at least in some of your cases you were just sick of the thread or figured I didn't need any help, but FYI: I COULD use your help. I've had less, and if I'm not mistaken, far less expensive schooling than Benjamin, so there's no reason to assume he needs more backup, and besides, like Benjamin, I'm a human being, and it would indeed feel good to hear expressions of support from those who know or believe lighthouse's smear to be the lie that it is.

 

Compare, if you will, my overall posting history (a combination of responses to requests for advice; genial Munroevian quips; reflections on my experience as both an escort and a client; the occasional plug for new content on my website or the diary; participation, sometimes emphatic, in political and/or cultural discussions; and yes, occasional arguments in the lawyerly style with lawyers) with that of skyylab (virtually none, and what little there is is riddled with contradictions) and that of lighthouse/axehabia/ad rian (dark musings and virtiolic arguements about the Zionist menace; requests for advice about his various escort problems; recurring, blatant mockery and armchair psychoanalysis of all clients who don't share his hiring habits; and -- DING DING DING -- extensive smear campaigns against escorts he's never met: Bruno Gaucho, Benjamin Nicholas, Ethan, and now me). Again I point out that lighthouse did NOT, on that thread, attack by name any escort he had actually met, only those he hadn't, though he had no problem basing his assumptions about what we'd be like on his experience with the escorts whose names he was keeping under wraps. Additionally, my identity is NOT anonymous; I show my face; I have given people every opportunity to know me as well as they want to before they hire me; and I have dozens of reviews indicating that I care a great deal about my clients. Who do you believe? If you believe me, and care to say so, I would very much appreciate it.

 

For those of you who consider my refusal to haggle a sign of contempt for clients, I would ask you to consider another possiblity, which is that, like pretty much every gay man I know of, maybe, just maybe, I have some self-esteem issues of my own, and maybe my response to haggling is a reflection of that. People who think I'm worth my rate tend to make me feel better about myself than people who don't think I'm worth it. Call me insecure, but at the end of the day, can't you forgive an escort for having a little insecurity just like you most likely do, rather than assume his unwillingness to negotiate must mean he denigrates clients? (For that matter, can't you just take it as a sign that he's consistent in his pricing?)

 

Look again at my first post in that thread. Can anyone dispute that my position on rates is overwhelmingly moderate? I welcome the competition from the lower tiers, express pleasure that clients in that market have more options, and -- ironically -- put forward what actually amounts to a softening of previously stated views on the negotiation subject. Boston Guy might agree that in the past I took what could only be described as a more militant position. I felt much more inclined in those days to take a "party line" view that escorts should not negotiate. My more recent post reflects and expresses an acceptance that "there are no ranks to break" and praises one of the negotiators' leading lights, Boston Guy (whom I have previously criticized on this very subject), for practicing probably the style of negotiation least likely to cause offense. Our different approaches to this matter, along with, no doubt, his taste in escorts, most likely means we'll never meet, but neither one of us resents the other for that fact. Indeed, his was one of the few voices raised on my behalf, and I am grateful to him for that fact.

 

Finally, can anyone who denounced me or silently nodded their approval of those who did, at least address a single substantive point I actually made in any of my replies on the last thread? Enough vague references to "tone" and "denigration of clients" -- can anyone actually attack my remarks on the merits? Or are you, like VaHawk and lighthouse, content to assume the worst and sling mud without even refuting a single argument?

 

It will be interesting to see if this is indeed my swan song. I don't think it will be, because my experience over the last two-and-a-half years has convinced me that, though they may misinterpret me at times, most people who know me via either this site, my diary and website, or from having met me in person, at bottom do "get me" well enough to believe that I've earned my reviews; that my reputation is built on something real; that I do care about my clients; that I'm not scheming to see what little perks and extra goodies I can wrangle out of them; that I've been more than willing to value my integrity over the almighty dollar; that when my clients meet me, they meet, first and foremost a real person. But if I'm wrong and this is my swan song, I'll fade away with my head held high. I've only ever really been interested in working with clients with whom I can truly be myself, and in a way my career as been an experiment to see whether an escort can get away with simply being who he is, or whether schizophrenia is really what clients prefer. The answer, on the whole, has been heartening, and I hope it will continue to be.

 

This time around, if people do support me, I'd love to hear from you. I have little fear that I won't hear from the people who don't.

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Guest lighthouse
Posted

I think your diary entry today about your new love, and reticence about the biz goes along way to expalaining your lengthy out of character posts here and in the other thread.

 

I don't know whether Skyguy smeared you or not. He seemed to offer a view that his experience with you was not bad, but unsatisfying. Are you so "swollen with your little pride" (from a Lennard Cohen song) that you can't accept that someone had a less than satisfying experience with you?

 

As for me, I know I did not smear you. By your comments about needing sunglasses to treat some clients as VIPs, and your description of how much better people who don't quibble with your price treat you by giving you monetary and non-monetary perks smeared you effectively smeared yourself.

 

At any rate, I for one wish you the best of luck in working through what ever issues are troubling you, and even if you continue to slam me here, I promise to continue to reply politely to your private emails to this guy you brand an "asshole", a "creep", a "looser" and an anti-semite.

Posted

RE: This Tape Will Self-Destruct

 

>My question: stacked up against what you know about me, via

>either my diary, my reviews, my overall posting history on

>this message center, or some combination thereof, are those

>two -- for the sake of argument, let's call them faults,

>though I have, unsurprisingly, a different take on them -- SO

>awful as to warrant the vehemence of the bile directed at me

>in that thread?

 

Probably not, but neither are your virtues so great as to justify the sycophantic compliments you receive from some of the lonely old duffers who frequent this forum. If you're going to accept the latter, you really should accept the former. It's only fair.

 

 

>VaHawk's seething hatred for me needed two posts to spread out

>in, and I have little doubt that soon those two posts will

>come to seem too confining.

 

I haven't read the posts in question, but you are probably exaggerating -- it certainly wouldn't be the first time. What I know of Hawk disinclines me to believe that he is seething with hatred of you or anyone else. He takes himself less seriously than almost anyone else here. And he is just as quick to admit his own faults as he is to point out the faults of others. I can't say the same about you.

 

>Charming, isn't it? How much do you have to hate someone

>you've never met to take pure, unadulterated schadenfreude in

>his perceived self-destruction?

 

Speaking of exaggeration, the "self-destruction" you are talking about is nothing more than the exchange of a few harsh words with a couple of anonymous posters on a message board that only a small percentage of this site's visitors read. And it will be forgotten in a few days. Or a few hours. What nonsense.

 

>Even the squabbles woodlawn and I get into. Whereas Doug69

>and I respect each other, woodlawn and I don't, and it shows

>in our exchanges, and while, on the one hand, that's too bad,

>on the other hand it does sometimes ensure that opposing

>points of view on important issues get a thorough airing.

 

I find that to be utter bullshit, actually. I happen to agree with our host that there is absolutely no need in discussing any issue to cross the line between expressing disagreement with the views of another and asserting that there is something wrong with the person who holds those views. My policy is to avoid crossing that line until my opponent does so, but as I've said again and again that policy reflects only my personal inclination and not some higher purpose. Using personal attacks whether aggressively or defensively does nothing to illuminate any issue or argument. Anyone who asserts there is some higher purpose to them is simply being dishonest.

 

Of course, in this thread there is no distinction between the opinion and the person who holds it for the simple reason that the subject of the thread is YOU. Your choice.

 

 

>Maybe woodlawn and I were both a

>little nicer to be around in person after having gotten a

>little aggression out of our systems.

 

 

You're mistaken in thinking that I ever argue on this message board (or elsewhere) out of anger about what is said or anger at the person who says it. I have other ways of releasing my anger.

 

 

>I find it fascinating that there are actually clients out

>there who would use their opinion of how well or poorly an

>escort handled a smear on his reputation to determine what he

>must be like to spend time with in bed or over dinner or

>drinks.

 

It seems pretty logical to me. I wouldn't care to hire someone who is inclined to be argumentative or who takes himself or his "reputation" too seriously. That simply isn't the sort of person I enjoy being with. Others may have different tastes, of course.

 

>Would they like the sum of their work to be judged in light of

>how they reacted on that occasion?

 

The "sum of their work"? You sound as though you're talking about Winston Churchill or Saul Bellow rather than a hooker.

 

 

>What I find even more incredible is that people who praised

>Benjamin for his post accusing lighthouse of spreading

>"bullshit" and creating posts for the purpose of stirring up

>trouble were by and large nowhere to be found when the same

>poster launched the same attacks on another escort.

 

This may not have occurred to you, but perhaps they simply didn't think the whole thing was very important. That's a point of view I can certainly understand.

 

 

>but FYI: I

>COULD use your help. I've had less, and if I'm not mistaken,

>far less expensive schooling than Benjamin, so there's no

>reason to assume he needs more backup, and besides, like

>Benjamin, I'm a human being, and it would indeed feel good to

>hear expressions of support from those who know or believe

>lighthouse's smear to be the lie that it is.

 

 

It's pretty ironic for someone who's been as nasty to others as you have as often as you have to come here asking for sympathy when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine. If you can't hold your own in the discussions you have here, perhaps you should stop having them.

 

 

>the occasional plug for new content on my

>website or the diary;

 

Occasional? Unless I'm mistaken you slip an ad for your services into every single post you create. Isn't that so?

 

>Finally, can anyone who denounced me or silently nodded their

>approval of those who did, at least address a single

>substantive point I actually made in any of my replies on the

>last thread? Enough vague references to "tone" and

>"denigration of clients" -- can anyone actually attack my

>remarks on the merits?

 

I already did, in my conversation in that thread with Franco.

 

>But if I'm

>wrong and this is my swan song, I'll fade away with my head

>held high.

 

Oh, knock it off. You know quite well that there is a vast supply of lonely old men who will fall all over themselves to get access to your body no matter what you say to members of the tiny group that hangs out in this forum.

 

Frankly, this thread strikes me as yet another example of the game some escorts play here in which they pretend to be upset or offended by something another poster says so that they can get still other posters to shower them with compliments and sympathetic remarks. It's been a long time since you've tried that. I'm sorry to see you haven't grown out of it.

Posted

I have absolutely no hatred or even dislike towards you in any shape, form or degree of shading. I have no feelings towards you at all, because as you astutely point out I don’t know you, so how could I? I haven’t met you and I have never read your diary entries. As such, I only know you from what you post on the mc and in turn that is the only way that you know me, but that doesn’t stop you from posting (ala this thread) assumptions about me, now does it?

 

I also fail to see where anything I posted was an attack against you. Where did I ever state that I found any fault with you? If I implied any fault, it was that you were naïve enough to engage in a mud slinging session with lighthouse (that was the whole point of my black humored little piggy poem). Everyone, including you, know what lighthouse’s shtick is by now. My God, he’s like a broken record that plays the same note over and over and over. And yet once again, someone fell right into the trap. That’s what my LOVE it comment was about, why I admire lighthouse and why I still LOVE it, no matter who the victim is. Unfortunately, this time it just happened to be you. Nothing personal there on my part.

 

Now, the denigration of clients issue. I don’t need to cite a specific example, and can’t, as I don’t know any of your clients. Your words in the last thread were the lone basis of my opinion on this issue, which can honestly be meant to apply to clients as a whole. When you state things like giving less that full effort because a client is paying less than you would prefer and/or other clients have paid, or state that if a client has something “extra” to bring to the table ala youth and looks, then how is that not a slam against those past clients of yours who failed to meet that criteria? How is it not a turnoff to any potential client who stumbles upon your words here?

 

Next! Casting aspersions? Sure, BuckXTC’s words were kind to you, however, they sure weren’t too kind towards lighthouse. My SCREAM was directed at yet another pseudo pop psychologist, ala Joyce Brothers, to brand other posters as mentally defective and in need of psychiatric help. Trite, is not diminutive enough, to describe that predictable of a post.

 

As far as my parroting of your BN reference it was indeed intended to be lifted verbatim and in the same spirit. The point being, that I sincerely doubt that BN would have fallen into the old trap and wallowed in a mud slinging debacle as you did. IMO, you were doing great until you fell into the old trap (try reading the story of Brer Rabbit sometime). Besides, there is no need to drag BN into your refutation of my words, as I really don’t see where there is any connection.

 

Finally, (my post is long because your refutation to me was long), of course I lose my cool at times and rant, but I’m willing to put up with the ostracism and retaliations that go along with that, which this thread indicates that you are not. I agree with your point that ranting (check out Craig's List) is one of the points of an anonymous internet board, but you should realize that there are many types out there (see deej’s link) and not take everything so damn seriously. Besides if a non-escort poster rages in destruction, what has he lost? When an escort does it using his business name, especially on a site that generates business, then how could it be anything but self-destructive.

 

Best of everything, no matter what you decide to do.

Posted

Deja vu all over again

 

Devon,

When I opened this thread, I had no idea it was the result of posts from the other thread regarding rates. I had to go back and read them to see what the fuss was about.

 

Having fallen into the AXE trap myself, it was like reliving a nightmare.

 

You and I have never met, but some time ago exchanged a couple of emails. After you made your decision to no longer bottom, I became less interested in your services, but never less interested in your posts, and for some time kept up with your diary.

 

Having said that, let me also say that although my budget doesn't allow for much luxury play, I could easily see paying your two hour rate, so I am not put off by your fees. I think you have a cute body and I love nipple play and wrestling.

 

I think it's a case of AXE finding a soft spot, setting the cattle prod, and then riding the bull for all it's worth. As for the remarks of other posters, well they can speak for themselves. And believe me, some will jump on my post (no doubt) and call it a perfect example of some star fucker sycophant , but let's allow them that illusion. I take no offense because it's nowhere near the truth.

 

Stick around, I would miss your input in the MC. As one who has created and weathered a few storms myself, they blow over and the sun (and friends) do come out.

;-)

Posted

>I have absolutely no hatred or even dislike towards you in

>any shape, form or degree of shading. I have no feelings

>towards you at all, because as you astutely point out I don’t

>know you, so how could I? I haven’t met you and I have never

>read your diary entries. As such, I only know you from what

>you post on the mc and in turn that is the only way that you

>know me, but that doesn’t stop you from posting (ala this

>thread) assumptions about me, now does it?

 

Sounds like a lie to me.

>

>I also fail to see where anything I posted was an attack

>against you. Where did I ever state that I found any fault

>with you? If I implied any fault, it was that you were naïve

>enough to engage in a mud slinging session with lighthouse

>(that was the whole point of my black humored little piggy

>poem). Everyone, including you, know what lighthouse’s shtick

>is by now. My God, he’s like a broken record that plays the

>same note over and over and over. And yet once again,

>someone fell right into the trap. That’s what my LOVE it

>comment was about, why I admire lighthouse and why I still

>LOVE it, no matter who the victim is. Unfortunately, this

>time it just happened to be you. Nothing personal there on my

>part.

>

 

Now another one.

 

 

>Now, the denigration of clients issue. I don’t need to cite a

>specific example, and can’t, as I don’t know any of your

>clients. Your words in the last thread were the lone basis of

>my opinion on this issue, which can honestly be meant to apply

>to clients as a whole. When you state things like giving less

>that full effort because a client is paying less than you

>would prefer and/or other clients have paid, or state that if

>a client has something “extra” to bring to the table ala youth

>and looks, then how is that not a slam against those past

>clients of yours who failed to meet that criteria? How is it

>not a turnoff to any potential client who stumbles upon your

>words here?

>

>Next! Casting aspersions? Sure, BuckXTC’s words were kind

>to you, however, they sure weren’t too kind towards

>lighthouse. My SCREAM was directed at yet another pseudo pop

>psychologist, ala Joyce Brothers, to brand other posters as

>mentally defective and in need of psychiatric help. Trite, is

>not diminutive enough, to describe that predictable of a post.

 

Interesting that you would characterize me as a "pseudo pop psychologist". Do you have any knowledge whatsoever of my professional background, training, advanced degrees, etc? Are you ready to make a sporting wager as to my qualifications to identify psychopathology when I see it? Of course, we have those here who claim that it is impossible to do that without seeing someone "in person" to make any kind of diagnosis. That is a canard if there ever was one. Would you have to know Caligula or Hitler personally to come to the conclusion that they were mentally disturbed? I think not. Much of Hitler's pathology was readily evident from his writings. Of course, Hawk, you probably don't read much other than what is posted here.

 

 

>As far as my parroting of your BN reference it was indeed

>intended to be lifted verbatim and in the same spirit. The

>point being, that I sincerely doubt that BN would have fallen

>into the old trap and wallowed in a mud slinging debacle as

>you did. IMO, you were doing great until you fell into the

>old trap (try reading the story of Brer Rabbit sometime).

>Besides, there is no need to drag BN into your refutation of

>my words, as I really don’t see where there is any

>connection.

 

Ah, quoting Brer Rabbit, are we? I'm not surprised you would quote the old deep south racist stuff to make your points.....that's probably the extent of your reading repertoire.

 

>Finally, (my post is long because your refutation to me was

>long), of course I lose my cool at times and rant, but I’m

>willing to put up with the ostracism and retaliations that go

>along with that, which this thread indicates that you are not.

> I agree with your point that ranting (check out Craig's List)

>is one of the points of an anonymous internet board, but you

>should realize that there are many types out there (see deej’s

>link) and not take everything so damn seriously. Besides if a

>non-escort poster rages in destruction, what has he lost?

>When an escort does it using his business name, especially on

>a site that generates business, then how could it be anything

>but self-destructive.

>

>Best of everything, no matter what you decide to do.

 

With Hawk, hyprocrisy reigns supreme.

>

Posted

Hey, Devon - Nobody loves protracted, combative, contempt-dripping conflict more than I do (except perhaps woodlawn, who will haughtily and piously deny that he likes it, claiming instead that he is involved in such distasteful matters only when dragged into it against his will, which, just coincidentally, happens about every 5 minutes), but these threads and your reaction to them have become so warped beyond their actual significance that thee are almost pity-inducing, and so even I felt compelled to intervene and try to explain why what you have apparently taken on as some earth-shattering, career-endangering, reputation-destroying, profoundly destructive act of betrayal is actually nothing more than petty, inconsequential Internet chatter that will have exactly no effect on anything and which nobody except for the few unfortunate participants will remember even exists in, oh, say 48 hours from now.

 

A few facts to keep in mind:

 

(1) Only a tiny number of people follow lengthy threads here that have more than 20 posts in them - particularly in those rare instances when the threads contain posts more substantive than "Wow! Thanks!" and "What a cutie!" The attention span of most of the people around here is not exactly substantial. Once the thread moves beyond one-sentence giggles and adolescent, sickeningly worshippful praise of certain escort-participants, and particularly when (gasp!) substantive disagreement arises, their minds wander, to put it nicely, and they read no more.

 

Watch the number of "views" and the level of participation as a thread becomes prolonged. After awhile (a short while), all that's reading is a handful of a motley mix of obsessives, hate-addicts, war-fans and those who have some personal or emotional stake in the discussion. As I said, I LOVE watching these sorts of prolonged argumentative dramas - the more vituperative and evolving the better -and even I had trouble sludging through the whole thing.

 

Put a little more succinctly, virtually nobody read much of that exchange about you and virtually nobody gives a shit - not now, and definitely not two days from now.

 

(2) Nobody can be without some enemies and some critics. Even the most candied-assed, ass-kissing, obsequious, harmless escorts here have generated haters and critics. Why, I just read recently that some awful human being has taken to slandering Saint Benjamin on some other whore site with anonymous negative reviews. His career is still doing fine. So are the careers of all the other escorts here who have become embroiled in one dispute or another where all sorts of people said mean bad things about them.

 

Put more succinctly, butch up, Devon. So some stupid anonymous faggot said some not nice things about you and a few of the insane asylum patients, driven by their own disparate motives, backed him up in a thread that now has 100 posts. It's all irrelevant. Quit the weepy Gloria Swanson routine. It's a non-sequitor.

 

(3) One of the things I like about this place is that the bizarre personalities and their weird, unpredictable idiosyncracies create this volatile mix where your best friend one day is your worst enemy the next and then back to indifference the next day - all depending on what topic happens to be discussed or who is being attacked or what axe someone has to grind (no pun intended) on that given day.

 

What happened here is nothing more than that. Some poster with some agenda against you(the genesis of which you will never learn) posted some dumb pseudo-review that nobody will read or remember.

 

For whatever reason, that review and your response touched the hot button of certian of the inmates here, who then responded in ways that you interpreted as critical. Axe got upset because you seemed be saying that your hiring policy doesn't conform to his demands, which drive him crazy. VaHawk, one of my favorite posters here, thought you said something mean about Benjamin, who is his God, and that triggered his shockingly thorough Benjamin-defense sensors and he jumped in to say that you were scum. Others here with past grudges (e.g., Woodlawn) then, like sharks smelling blood, seized on your vulnerablity to kick you a little when you were down.

 

None of this has to do with you. It all has to do with them. No one considering hiring you will read it. If they did, they wouldn't care. It's all just the by-product of the sick but loveable toxicity that is generated in this forum by the daily mix of all these little psychic characters. Every day, you put chemicals in the test tube, shake it, and weird things come out. It just so happened that what came out yesterday was that sub-thread about you. Tomorrow, it could be and will something totally different. And nobody will really give a fuck about that either.

 

(4) As Woodlawn sagely advised you, if you post in the Message Center, at some point, people will say mean things about you. This is particularly true given that, unlike most escorts here, you post by giving opinions and contributing substance, rather than running smiley, offend-no-one television commercials for yourself.

 

If you do that, you will, at some point, offend someone. They in turn will try to attack you by saying you are a shitty escort. Others who dislike you or have some grudge about the point that is being made against you (but which is relaly about another escort) will then agree.

 

In reality, none of it matters. People read reviews and hire. Those who read the message center will base their opinions on all your postings, not the unverified ravings of some anonymous poster and the inter-forum disputes by the regulars here.

 

In other words, none of this fucking matters - at all - to anyone - in any way. But if you have trouble remembering that, or are going to be "hurt" or traumatized every time this happens, then Woodlawn is right - you should stop posting (or post your substance under a non-escort name, like so many escorts have done). But please- stop pretending that anything significant of any kind has occurred in this little forum, because it hasn't.

Guest DevonSFescort
Posted

>When you state things like giving less

>that full effort because a client is paying less than you

>would prefer and/or other clients have paid, or state that if

>a client has something “extra” to bring to the table ala youth

>and looks, then how is that not a slam against those past

>clients of yours who failed to meet that criteria?

 

Because, as I said from the beginning, I've never had a client who paid less than I would prefer, nor a client who "failed to meet that criteria." I'm amazed that this still isn't clear to you, but the clients I take on are people who ARE willing to pay my rates. Here's what I said:

 

"Looking back on my escorting career I'm pretty sure the only times I've agreed to negotiate have been when the potential client impressed me by 'putting up' something -- like sending a pic or enticing me with a description that so piqued my curiosity I just had to agree."

 

You are complaining that I am slamming people who don't exist. You and lighthouse keep expressing such deep concern about how my haggling clients must have felt when they read my post, but what I am saying, and have said all along, is that I don't HAVE any haggling clients. The only people whom I've agreed to take on as clients at less than my stated fee were people who were offering me something besides their desire to spend less money. Clear now?

 

>Next! Casting aspersions? Sure, BuckXTC’s words were kind

>to you, however, they sure weren’t too kind towards

>lighthouse. My SCREAM was directed at yet another pseudo pop

>psychologist, ala Joyce Brothers, to brand other posters as

>mentally defective and in need of psychiatric help. Trite, is

>not diminutive enough, to describe that predictable of a post.

 

Of course, when you said "where the hell are the sane posters on this site?" (now there's a line that sparkles with originality) YOU weren't branding anyone mentally defective, were you? But allow me to assist you with your convenient memory. Your "I want to SCREAM" line was directed at exactly the part where BuckyXTC said he would seriously consider hiring me if I was in his area. You then said his opinion was "more than suspect" because he wasn't hopping a plane to California. Then you rhetorically asked whether he'd read my responses, as if no "sane" person who had could ever consider hiring me. But now you say the only fault you find with me is my naivete. Does this mean you are so strongly opposed to the hiring of naive escorts that you want to SCREAM at anyone who dares express a different preference? What is it to you, anyway? I'd like to give you some advice a wise man posted on the other thread:

 

"If he is not what your criteria is for hiring an escort, then just move on, as I'm sure you can find someone who meets your criteria. There really is absolutely no need to slam either Devon or his clients."

 

Don't look now, but that wise man was you. I just substituted my name for Benjamin's -- a heresy for which I apologize, but maybe once you get past that you'll see my point.

 

>Besides, there is no need to drag BN into your refutation of

>my words, as I really don’t see where there is any

>connection.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had the exclusive right to speak his name. Let me help you with the connection. Two escorts...attacked in the same thread...by the same poster...neither of whom he has met...each time to make the same point about escorts he HAS met but does NOT name...in the first case, you criticize the poster who attacked him, but in the second case, you attacked the victim, criticized another poster for saying he wanted to hire him, and praised the suddenly "loveable" poster who'd attacked both escorts for triggering the "self-destruction" of the escort you haven't slept with. Still confused about the connection?

 

>Besides if a

>non-escort poster rages in destruction, what has he lost?

>When an escort does it using his business name, especially on

>a site that generates business, then how could it be anything

>but self-destructive.

 

By the same token, when someone slanders an anonymous screen name, who is he hurting? When he slanders an escort, especially on a site that generates business, how could it be anything but hurtful? But you must know this already, which is why you defend Benjamin when he's unfairly attacked (something we have in common). I may have no right to expect you to do the same for me, but nor did I expect you to pile it on.

Posted

Not that I need to justify myself to your putrid, hate filled attacks, where your personally biased hatred blinds you to everything except zeroing in on someone in a personal attack because they don't agree with your opinions, but yes, I do read a lot and have always done so, not that it is, in anyway, any of your business. Reading and reading comprehension, is one of my most passionate pleasures. While others were reading the Hardy Boy mysteries and such in grade school, I was reading Melville, Dickens, Alcott, Dickinson, Thoreau, Collins, Coleridge et al et nauseum. I could read when I was 5 and read Moby Dick when I was 10, so what the hell does your vitriol supposed to imply?

 

BTW: I guess you can't even read the basic tenets of this site as stated, and vehemently restated by HB'S New Year's post, but to reiterate, attack the issue and not the poster!

Posted

Wow Devon it is hard to wade through all of that to find what you are really asking. But since I've got some free time I'll wade in a little bit.

>

>My question: stacked up against what you know about me, via

>either my diary, my reviews, my overall posting history on

>this message center, or some combination thereof, are those

>two -- for the sake of argument, let's call them faults,

>though I have, unsurprisingly, a different take on them -- SO

>awful as to warrant the vehemence of the bile directed at me

>in that thread?

 

Depends on your definition of "vehemence of Bile" I guess. Actually the he said, she said got so long many of us got lost well before post #100. Also, those of us that view this site often learn the players and consider the sources so I personally feel you gave as good as you got. No winner, no loser, just un-gentlemenly like disagreements. I feel you over reacted to Skyyguy's "unsatisfactory" comments but would expect you to be concerned with any potential for an unsatisfied client. Since you mention your diary. I was surprised to see you sort of criticize Skyyguy's like of Aaron Westin for being a bi guy with limitations after reading your praise of a popular G Dancer (Ben Versace) who you described as basicly a muscled str8 guy that you paid to service. What's the difference in his praise of Aaron and your praise of Ben when it sounds to me they are both very similar?

 

>What I find even more incredible is that people who praised

>Benjamin for his post accusing lighthouse of spreading

>"bullshit" and creating posts for the purpose of stirring up

>trouble were by and large nowhere to be found when the same

>poster launched the same attacks on another escort.

 

Are you suggesting that people here have favorites. Well sorry to break the news Devon but we all have favorites if we hire any at all.

 

>This time around, if people do support me, I'd love to hear

>from you. I have little fear that I won't hear from the

>people who don't.

 

Devon, most of us here enjoy your comments and those of other Escorts. Of course Escorts making certain comments here can possibly affect their business. Are you asking if your comments, defense, argument or what ever you call it, will keep some of us from hiring you?

 

I can only speak for myself. Even though you no longer bottom, I look forward to meeting you as a client and I am sure we can have a blast. I still expect you to be my Tour Guide, between some fun time I am sure, on my first visit to San Francisco in a few months. The only swan song I see for you are your comments in your diary about the BF wanting you to stop escorting. If you are seriously considering it, I hope to get my turn to pay your unreduced fee before you do.:*

 

Now I honestly don't know if I answered ANY of your questions or gave you any type of reply you were looking for.

Posted

>I find it fascinating that there are actually clients out

>there who would use their opinion of how well or poorly an

>escort handled a smear on his reputation to determine what he

>must be like to spend time with in bed or over dinner or

>drinks.

 

Devon, Devon, Devon…you’re way too smart to be drawn in like this. I’m afraid I got bored with the negotiation thread several days ago so I’m not up to speed on the recent exchanges. It sounds like I’m not missing much.

 

Of COURSE there are people who will be scared off by an intelligent, articulate escort who, God forbid, expresses his opinion or stands up for himself. (Ask Ethan or Hagen about that.) Just as there are lonely old duffers who will fawn over you, (woodlawn’s caricature, but I tend to agree) there is a whole host of timid little guys who won't be able to handle their fantasy being disturbed by the reality of an escort who isn’t all sweet and compliant.

 

I don’t want to rehash woodlawn’s post, but, laced in among the barbs, he had some good points that you need to hear it from someone who doesn’t have the baggage of past conflicts. (It reminds me of ‘Big Dog and Me Too.’ Damn that deej for posting that link. I’m constantly wondering which one of those warriors I sound like!)

 

This can only be a big deal if you perceive it as one and you are totally in control of that.

 

It means nothing professionally. It will have absolutely no impact on your business because so few people actually participate in the message center, and I have the feeling that most of us who do participate regularly, do more talking than we do hiring.

 

It means nothing personally. You don’t really know any of us. I know there are cyber friendships, but don’t take the lack of support in that other thread to mean anything. It became a really boring thread after a couple of days and the number of views mean nothing. Most people were probably not aware of this at all.

 

I’m sure that much of what I said has become repetitive in the time it has taken me to write this, but I wrote it, and I’m going to post the damn thing.

Guest DevonSFescort
Posted

>I don't know whether Skyguy smeared you or not.

 

How kind of you to belatedly admit that, after seizing on his posts to construct a theory about how I escort that conforms to your experience with twink escorts on other continents, whom you couldn't be bothered with naming, so that you could announce over and over again your already well-established intention not to hire me. What's the point of doing that if not to try and discourage other people from hiring me? At least in your emails you were more honest about this all being tit-for-tat for my concurring with the opinion of just about every other poster on this board that you are an anti-Semite.

Posted

"VaHawk, one of my favorite posters here, thought you said something mean about Benjamin, who is his God, and that triggered his shockingly thorough Benjamin-defense sensors and he jumped in to say that you were scum."

 

Thanks, you're one of my favorite posters, also. In this case, however, I don't think that you really waded thru the mc version of Tolstoy's War and Peace. Devon never said anything mean about BN which in turn triggered "my sensors". I also never said Devon was scum. But even so, keep posting dude, as you are one of the best! :)

OOOPS!, I used one of those patronizing, inane smiley faces!

 

BTW: Is my god shining at me in the rear view mirror? Hmmm?

Posted

Hey Devon,

I enjoy your diary daily however think you`re spinning "oac" with this thread.

We haven`t met yet `cause I you missed seeing you at the recent LA Brunch however don`t get caught up in these ongoing lectures on this board. Like a previous message said - once you see the length of postings - you kinda drift right on bye 'that one '.

 

Please keep on posting since you`re a grear writer (+ artist)

Keep in Touch !!

Posted

I have wasted enough of my time replying to your inanity and this is my last reply to both you and this subject, which you intend to drag out to the death of all that is humane.

 

SCREAM! At the post by BuckyXTC and his vile hatred and prejudice, as witness my previous post on this thread. Also, reread his qualification on his comments about you and your age, et al. I guess I was just so lost in rage at sycophancy and self-rightous, pompous, pseudo-psycotherapy practitioners that I didn't take the time to preview where I placed the damn SCREAM! But SCREAM!!! says it all for me!

 

As far as that other escort goes, I won't drag his name thru your personal angst anymore - I'll let you do that. I'm not going to substitute your name for his, because I know him, and as I said, before I DON'T KNOW YOU. If I knew you, then I perhaps would gladly substitute your name for his in my opinions. Your point of view seems to indicate that I should substitute any escort's name. Sorry, I just can't do that, but look up your good ole' sycophantic buddy BuckyXTC, as I'm sure he'll be glad to accomodate you and any other escort that he has not PERSONALLY met, nor hired (but he would consider it if you were either younger or in his "neighborhood" (but don't bet the house on that)).

 

CHILL - LIFE IS WAY TOO SHORT. JUST ASK ALL THOSE WHO DIED OF AIDS AT 25!

Posted

Devon:

 

OMG, people are going to start thinking I'm one of the laconic ones here! :)

 

My friend, here's my take:

 

1. Listen to Doug's advice above. I don't often agree with him but there is much wisdom in what he says.

 

2. Your friends are still your friends and they still like you; the others don't count.

 

3. This issue was completely hashed out long ago; the time has come to swallow hard and put it behind you. In two days, everyone who counts will have forgotten it. Trust me.

 

4. I learned long ago that there comes a time in every thread to let others have the last word. I think you're there. :-)

 

Truly, this is a tempest in a teapot. Take a deep breath, relax, and go do something nice for yourself. And, oh, yes: continue posting here just as you always have.

 

Fondly,

BG

Guest DevonSFescort
Posted

>Since you mention your diary. I was

>surprised to see you sort of criticize Skyyguy's like of Aaron

>Westin for being a bi guy with limitations after reading your

>praise of a popular G Dancer (Ben Versace) who you described

>as basicly a muscled str8 guy that you paid to service. What's

>the difference in his praise of Aaron and your praise of Ben

>when it sounds to me they are both very similar?

 

Absolutely none. For the record, I think Aaron Westin is very hot and would probably have gotten around to hiring him myself one of these days had he not retired. My point was that it was strange to read Skyyguy's complaint about my failure to give an unsolicited blowjob when probably the safest assumption in the world to make is that Aaron, a more expensive escort who was well worth the money, didn't give him a blowjob, solicited or otherwise. I have no problem with praising Aaron or any other escort. (By the way, anyone who wants his dick sucked should just say so. I don't make a habit of just assuming guys want them, whether they're clients or off-duty hookups. This restraint, I believe, reduces my chances at STD infection by presenting fewer opportunities for it, which in turn means someone's a little less likely to get an STD when I suck his dick upon request.)

 

>I look forward to meeting you as a client and I am sure we

>can have a blast. I still expect you to be my Tour Guide,

>between some fun time I am sure, on my first visit to San

>Francisco in a few months.

 

I'll look forward to that. :)

Posted

WELL! EXCUSE US! :) You left out NOT ME and DID TOO!

 

Are you familiar with the old TV show MASH, where beej was a term of endearment for the character BJ? Does that mean deej equates to DJ? If so, does that make you far to the right of a good BJ? :)

Guest lighthouse
Posted

Nice try, but I said nothing of the sort. What I said in reply to your several private emails was what I said here publicly: (1) Skyguy's post struck a chord with me; (2) your initial lengthy post was "intellectual" so I replied in kind; and (3) you never struck me as particularly thin-skinned before now. As for the rest, I pointed out the irony of your complaining of me when you have regularly and unjustly skewered me long before now.

 

None of that is the issue though. You and you alone are responsible for the tone of your writing, and the views you expresed about clients. As I have sais to you publicly and privately, I hope your smearing of yourself will not affect your business, and I don't expect that it will. I think we could all see that some event in your personal life has occasioned this meltdown, and your diary entry yesterday conforms this.

Guest lighthouse
Posted

>You are complaining that I am slamming people who don't exist.

> You and lighthouse keep expressing such deep concern about

>how my haggling clients must have felt when they read my post,

>but what I am saying, and have said all along, is that I don't

>HAVE any haggling clients. The only people whom I've agreed

>to take on as clients at less than my stated fee were people

>who were offering me something besides their desire to spend

>less money. Clear now?

 

Devon, again you miss the point, and instead of seeking an honorable retreat, you dig an even bigger grave for yourself. I just don't think clients or potential clients want to hear that an escort needs so sunglasses to treat them as a VIP, and some of your other choice riffs. Yes, if the client was not inclined to hire you in the first place, you have lost nothing, but if the client reads that as a comment on your general attitude towards clients, then that client will sta away. The irony here is that this comment and your repeated lengthy attempted defenses of it are precisely in line with the behavior that Skyguy described in his experience with you, and that you apparently regard as a smear. If so, you have picked a funny, and ultimately unproductive way of trying to refute him. Maybe, you could lear a thing or two from Ben?

Posted

I could read when I was

>5 and read Moby Dick when I was 10, so what the hell does your

>vitriol supposed to imply?

 

If you're as smart as you say you are, take a long hard look at this sentence, especially the last part of it: "so what the hell does your vitriol supposed to imply?" I guess your grammar is deficient, when I thought it was your reading.

>

>BTW: I guess you can't even read the basic tenets of this

>site as stated, and vehemently restated by HB'S New Year's

>post, but to reiterate, attack the issue and not the poster!

>

>

 

Why should I bother, obviously you didn't, when you characterized me as "insane", as Devon so aptly pointed out. The hypocrite alarm is buzzing again. I've never attacked or criticized you until your unwarranted attack on my sanity, when you got your bowels in an uproar over the fact that I didn't share your low opinion of Devon. Of course, it's ok for you to fly off the handle and shoot from the hip, but when it comes back at you, you scream foul. Don't lecture others about following the rules if you don't intend to do so yourself.

Guest lighthouse
Posted

>(By the way, anyone who

>wants his dick sucked should just say so. I don't make a

>habit of just assuming guys want them, whether they're clients

>or off-duty hookups.

 

Am I the only other client here who finds it strange that an escort expects to be prompted to give a blow-job, or is this normal practice for escorts who are mainly Tops? I must say that the best escorts are intuitive (but really, how intuitive does one have to be about this, is there a man born or alive who does not like to have his dick sucked?). It is precisely that that gives rise to the sense of innocence and wonderment that gives rise to the best encounnters. Asking if an escort is top, bottom or versatile, I understand, but having to play the part of a movie director in the sack is not quite what I pay for. Devon, it seems that you have been lucky to find clients for your niche market indeed.

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