If you're bi is it "gay for pay"

[KurtBuns]

I've always been curious about this, a lot of men seem to take issue with "gay for pay" dancers but where do bi men fall?

[Irtwo]

Interesting question. To me "gay for pay" means the guy is otherwise totally straight.

[+ purplekow]

Bi for Guys. As a bi guy, I am hot for Guys and if my escort is also hot for guys, then there is no issue. Gay for pay guys make the illusion that the escort is into the client an even tougher sell.

[KurtBuns]

Thanks both of you for the input. purplekow I could definitely see it being a different level with the escort thing so I posted this in the strip club section because that seemed a bit less black and white. For example, as a bi guy I wouldn't see myself as having to put on any kind of act if I were dancing or stripping or whatever. I like to flirt and have my body lusted after haha but if I were to imagine an escort scene I would most likely be doing some kind of acting. My attraction to men doesn't come from a touchy feely kiss and romance sort of place and I know that is a common request of them.

 

The strip club scene on the other hand is intriguing to me, being in NYC, late 20s and fit. I've been reading around here to learn more.

[+ purplekow]

Well if your attraction to men comes from the sweaty. muscly, power, aggressive kind of place, there area plenty of guys out there looking for that too. As for the strip clubs, yes lusting is part of it, but then there is the touchy feely grind up against me and look like you are enjoying it part of the job. A great body will get you one dance in the strip club, knowing how to use a great body will get you a few, knowing how to use it and making others really believe you are enjoying it and them, that will get you a full dance card every time.

[MikeyGMin]

The strip club scene on the other hand is intriguing to me, being in NYC, late 20s and fit. I've been reading around here to learn more.

 

I like going to clubs with dancers. The club that I go to in my city has both gay and straight dancers (some of the gay ones may actually be Bi.) It's a gay club, but there are quite a few straight women who come for Stripper Circus, so I guess they are catering to all. They don't allow lap dances.

 

That's me in my avi with my favorite dancers smashing his junk in my face. He is my favorite because he is gay, loves the attention and has a great time. It would not matter to me at all if he was actually Bi. As long as he is having a good time.

 

I don't think anyone takes issue with the Bi guys. When someone says "gay for pay" they are talking about the straight ones. The ones that don't mind being admired, but want you to slip that dollar into the side of their shorts ever so gently without brushing any of the goods. They don't get any attention or money from me. In fact, they don't get much attention or money from anyone. The gay men and most of women seem to prefer the gay (bi) boys.

[+ Gar1eth]

Thanks both of you for the input. purplekow I could definitely see it being a different level with the escort thing so I posted this in the strip club section because that seemed a bit less black and white. For example, as a bi guy I wouldn't see myself as having to put on any kind of act if I were dancing or stripping or whatever. I like to flirt and have my body lusted after haha but if I were to imagine an escort scene I would most likely be doing some kind of acting. My attraction to men doesn't come from a touchy feely kiss and romance sort of place and I know that is a common request of them.

 

The strip club scene on the other hand is intriguing to me, being in NYC, late 20s and fit. I've been reading around here to learn more.

 

Liking to flirt or liking to having your body lusted over doesn't sound very bi to me. Maybe it is a little. But in general it sounds to me more a part of being an extreme extrovert along with a liking for power plays. In my mind it seems to me you are more attracted to the fact that others want you more than you are attracted to the actual person doing the wanting.

 

Gman

[MikeyGMin]

it seems to me you are more attracted to the fact that others want you more than you are attracted to the actual person doing the wanting

 

I think that's a fairly common attribute of performers and escorts. It's part of why they can do what they do. I had one young man tell me that exact thing. That he got turned on by being wanted and was always able to perform as long as he was sure the client was really into him. Hey, worked out great for both of us!

 

I think that Kurt is saying that his attraction to men is more physical, carnal, down and dirty kind of stuff, so he's not cut out to provide an escort boyfriend experience type encounter. I don't think that makes him any less bisexual. If he gets off on having his kind of sex with men, that makes him bi in my book.

[+ Gar1eth]

 

I think that Kurt is saying that his attraction to men is more physical, carnal, down and dirty kind of stuff, so he's not cut out to provide an escort boyfriend experience type encounter. I don't think that makes him any less bisexual. If he gets off on having his kind of sex with men, that makes him bi in my book.

 

Possibly. But for many of these guys who are reportedly 'bi' -who don't kiss and basically don't reciprocate in any way-all they do is top-I question their bisexuality. Or if they are bisexual, then I don't think it's women and men they are attracted to but women and pipe holes. Because that's all they are basically doing -ramming a pipe hole.

 

Gman

[+ SundayZip]

I had an interesting conversation with a dancer at the Stock Bar in Montreal. He considers himself 100% straight but would prefer to dance for men, including lap dances. He says he sometimes gets turned on by the woman he is doing the dance for, but that's the exception. Most of the woman are too grabby and aggressive or he simply does not find them attractive. He's there to make money, not to get turned on and have sex. Men, on the otherhand, are more respectful and in many ways, allow him to be sexy in a way that he can sustain for his entire work-shift. And in case anyone is wondering, this particular dancer has no problem getting hard and staying hard during lap dances with men -- at least with me, anyhow.

[+ quoththeraven]

I had an interesting conversation with a dancer at the Stock Bar in Montreal. He considers himself 100% straight but would prefer to dance for men, including lap dances. He says he sometimes gets turned on by the woman he is doing the dance for, but that's the exception. Most of the woman are too grabby and aggressive or he simply does not find them attractive. He's there to make money, not to get turned on and have sex. Men, on the otherhand, are more respectful and in many ways, allow him to be sexy in a way that he can sustain for his entire work-shift. And in case anyone is wondering, this particular dancer has no problem getting hard and staying hard during lap dances with men -- at least with me, anyhow.

 

I wonder how he reacts to women who are equally respectful as the men and not grabby. Does he get hard then? Do their looks matter? Or is the fact that he's straight but he's not there to have sex inhibiting?

 

Or maybe his problem is with women initiating anything at all. Maybe he can feel sexy dancing for men, but not for women, because he's comfortable with men openly desiring him, but he's only interested in women as the objects of his desire.

[Tigger]

Men, on the otherhand, are more respectful ....

 

He's never met me.

[+ SundayZip]

I wonder how he reacts to women who are equally respectful as the men and not grabby. Does he get hard then? Do their looks matter? Or is the fact that he's straight but he's not there to have sex inhibiting?

 

Or maybe his problem is with women initiating anything at all. Maybe he can feel sexy dancing for men, but not for women, because he's comfortable with men openly desiring him, but he's only interested in women as the objects of his desire.

 

Good questions for which I do not have answers.

 

There are two key points that I got from our conversation:

1. Just because he's straight it doesn't mean he's turned on by all women. To assume so is to indulge in a variant of the stereotype that many straight people have of gay men, which is that gay men are attracted to anyone and everyone who happens to be male.

2. Women who hire him for lap dances often assume that they have access to his assets simply because they are a woman and he's a male stripper. Gay men, on the other hand, tend to understand that they earn access to his assets only after they have shown a certain level of generosity.

[+ quoththeraven]

Good questions for which I do not have answers.

 

There are two key points that I got from our conversation:

1. Just because he's straight it doesn't mean he's turned on by all women. To assume so is to indulge in a variant of the stereotype that many straight people have of gay men, which is that gay men are attracted to anyone and everyone who happens to be male.

2. Women who hire him for lap dances often assume that they have access to his assets simply because they are a woman and he's a male stripper. Gay men, on the other hand, tend to understand that they earn access to his assets only after they have shown a certain level of generosity.

 

That second observation is especially interesting. I think women may be predisposed not to view anything sexual transactionally because that goes again the grain of "it's only okay if done for love."

 

Plus women have less money to wave around and may be more thrifty. I know I am. The idea of slipping 20s or whatever to someone on top of what I'm already paying for a lap damce seems like a ridiculous extravagance. How do I know the payoff will be worth the money I'm investing?

 

That's a lot of trust. I'm just sayin'.

[+ poolboy48220]

The idea of slipping 20s or whatever to someone on top of what I'm already paying for a lap dance seems like a ridiculous extravagance. How do I know the payoff will be worth the money I'm investing?

 

That's a lot of trust. I'm just sayin'.

Men think this way too. I'd say it's not so much trust as a crapshoot. There are guys dancing who seem so promising but turn out to be not all you thought when it comes to a lap dance, and others that are pleasant surprises.

 

I often think of the line in Animal House, when they're looking for a date for Pinto. "Now, she should be good-looking, but we're willing to trade looks for a certain... morally casual attitude."

[+ quoththeraven]

Men think this way too. I'd say it's not so much trust as a crapshoot. There are guys dancing who seem so promising but turn out to be not all you thought when it comes to a lap dance, and others that are pleasant surprises.

 

I often think of the line in Animal House, when they're looking for a date for Pinto. "Now, she should be good-looking, but we're willing to trade looks for a certain... morally casual attitude."

 

Maybe it's more that men are more willing or apt to spend freely in hopes of finding that casual attitude. I'm not so sure women are.

 

For me, morality has little to nothing to do with it. It's more a matter of what an individual dancer is comfortable with under what circumstances.

[+ poolboy48220]

Maybe it's more that men are more willing or apt to spend freely in hopes of finding that casual attitude. I'm not so sure women are.

 

For me, morality has little to nothing to do with it. It's more a matter of what an individual dancer is comfortable with under what circumstances.

That might be. I'm willing to spend that once on a dancer. There are dancers I get along with great at the club, have great conversations and fun times, but I've stopped taking them to the back room because I'm not going to spend $100+ on conversation.

 

'Morally', there, I meant as kind of a whimsical turn of phrase. :-)

[+ SundayZip]

How do I know the payoff will be worth the money I'm investing?

 

It's a bit like back in the California gold rush. You gotta do some mining before you hit gold.

[+ quoththeraven]

'Morally', there, I meant as kind of a whimsical turn of phrase.

 

It's in the script. Just questioning applying that to women and sexuality. Confusing morality and preferences is one of our problems.

[+ FreshFluff]

That second observation is especially interesting. I think women may be predisposed not to view anything sexual transactionally because that goes again the grain of "it's only okay if done for love."

 

Women's lack of interest in paying male strippers has little to do with love. And it's not necessarily the male stripper who wants women to be the objects of desire; for many women, being in this role is a critical part of the sexual and romantic experience. Men, on the other hand, are usually fine with paying their partners in one form or another.

[+ Gar1eth]

Women's lack of interest in paying male strippers has little to do with love. And it's not necessarily the male stripper who wants women to be the objects of desire; for many women, being in this role is a critical part of the sexual and romantic experience. Men, on the other hand, are usually fine with paying their partners in one form or another.

 

 

Don't be too cynical about those of us of the weaker sex, FF. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that deep liking and love can intensify relations with a partner. Some of us for various reasons just aren't blessed enough to be able to find that.

 

Gman

[KurtBuns]

I think that's a fairly common attribute of performers and escorts. It's part of why they can do what they do. I had one young man tell me that exact thing. That he got turned on by being wanted and was always able to perform as long as he was sure the client was really into him. Hey, worked out great for both of us!

 

I think that Kurt is saying that his attraction to men is more physical, carnal, down and dirty kind of stuff, so he's not cut out to provide an escort boyfriend experience type encounter. I don't think that makes him any less bisexual. If he gets off on having his kind of sex with men, that makes him bi in my book.

 

This seems to describe me fairly well. Thanks for "defending" my bisexuality... lol

 

Possibly. But for many of these guys who are reportedly 'bi' -who don't kiss and basically don't reciprocate in any way-all they do is top-I question their bisexuality. Or if they are bisexual, then I don't think it's women and men they are attracted to but women and pipe holes. Because that's all they are basically doing -ramming a pipe hole.

 

Gman

 

I get where you are going with this, I just don't think it accurately describes me. Also, in an earlier message you pegged me as an "extreme extrovert" which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm pretty shy and while I enjoy pushing myself out of my 'comfort zone' every so often, extrovert would be pushing it... extreme extrovert is just not the case. If I were to assess myself I'd honestly say I lean much closer to being introverted but I digress.

 

Now to respond to that message which I quoted... I'm a bottom, so does this opinion still hold true? I mean you certainly could say it could still be true and I'd rather be getting fucked by a woman with a strap-on, but generally I don't think that's the case (although women usually don't stop fucking you after they cum.. or go soft if you move the wrong way, or get squeezed out of a tight butt so easily, but again I digress...) so I'm just curious if this changes your opinion of me and my question.

[MikeyGMin]

it could still be true and I'd rather be getting fucked by a woman with a strap-on, but generally I don't think that's the case (although women usually don't stop fucking you after they cum.. or go soft if you move the wrong way, or get squeezed out of a tight butt so easily, but again I digress...) so I'm just curious if this changes your opinion of me and my question

 

It sure as hell changes my opinion. Just the fact that you seem to know so much about being fucked by a woman with a strap on is a bizarre turn on that I can't quite figure out. My mental image of you just went from hot to smoking hot and very adventurous !!!

 

You do you my man. Get out there and tease those boys. Make them want you, and maybe occasionally let them throw you a bone.

[+ quoththeraven]

And it's not necessarily the male stripper who wants women to be the objects of desire; for many women, being in this role is a critical part of the sexual and romantic experience. Men, on the other hand, are usually fine with paying their partners in one form or another.

 

We could go around again about to what extent being an object of desire is important and the extent to which it is inherent or a result of social conditioning. I am in general more skeptical and reluctant to draw conclusions on that score than you are. But I don't think it would be very enlightening except maybe to the newbies who haven't witnessed our past exchanges over gender roles and stereotypes.

 

I'd also point out that it's not as though men don't want to be objects of desire. Or should we just say we want to be/feel desired and leave objects out of it?

 

I believe that men could benefit from a little more of the historically female approach to relationships, especially when it comes to loving (as opposed to confrontational) honesty, and that women could benefit from decoupling romance, sex, and friendship and figuring out which combination works for them and with whom. The belief that sex is only right in a committed, loving relationship has deluded many a high school or college-age girl or woman into believing she's in love and in a relationship (or should have one) when it's really the hormones talking and she'd be better off either moving on or treating the situation more casually.

 

It's fine to want a committed relationship before sex or to have certain material criteria for romantic partners. What's not fine is for society or individuals to advance the idea that this is or should be every woman's paradigm.

[+ quoththeraven]

It sure as hell changes my opinion. Just the fact that you seem to know so much about being fucked by a woman with a strap on is a bizarre turn on that I can't quite figure out. My mental image of you just went from hot to smoking hot and very adventurous !!!

 

You do you my man. Get out there and tease those boys. Make them want you, and maybe occasionally let them throw you a bone.

 

Apropos of strap-ons, I recently had an acquaintance offer to let me use a strap-on on him. I'm a frugal soul and toys often don't work for me, but I am thinking of taking him up on it.

 

I also discovered I don't have enough feeling in my fingers to tell a prostate from the rest of the tissue in there, but to my surprise I could reach it.

 

If I were a gay man, I would be versatile and a flip-fucker.