What's wrong with this picture, too?

[Boston Guy]

I've refrained from posting here for roughly the last two months, mainly out of sheer exasperation.

 

I truly didn't know if I would post again, at all. I contemplated simply leaving and not coming back: no melodramatic "last message", just simply going away. I considered putting DCForum (the software that runs the Message Center) on one of my servers and making it available; that's certainly easy enough to do. And I've spent a lot of time enjoying my summer. I hope all of you have done the same.

 

But I find that I actually care about this "place", this virtual commons where so many people have come and gone, including many whose online persona I recognize. At some point, posters cease to be simply a name on a page and take on a personality and a history. They become real and I think that their real personality shows through over time, despite what might be their best attempts to portray a different view to those of us who read their remarks.

 

I've been hanging around M4M for longer than almost anyone except HooBoy -- I think since just shy of one month after he first created the first version of the Message Center. I think I've been around here longer than any of the moderators (except, perhaps, Deej) and certainly longer than Daddy. That doesn't mean anything, of course, except that I've seen a lot of the history of M4M unfold, live and in front of me, as it were. I've seen it go up and go down, weather crises and be deadly dull. I watched the advent of "moderation" and the introduction of the moderators with bated breath, fearing -- quite rightly, as it turns out -- that moderation would change the nature of M4M. That such change has occurred is undeniable: many of the discussions concerning M4M itself center on the actions of the moderators, something not even relevent before HB turned forum moderation on. Whether the change is for the better is up for grabs.

 

The exasperation that led me to take the last couple of months off stemmed from a particular incident but was borne of a growing feeling that M4M has become highly over-moderated. M4M used to be a place where one could come and have a lively discussion, without any fear whatsoever that one would be censored or that one's thread would be deleted, locked, moved to another place, or somehow otherwise altered by nameless individuals who act in a seemingly arbitrary manner without naming themselves, usually provide no justification for their action, and generally respond to complaints with a "if you don't like it, here's the door" attitude.

 

This type of behavior and these actions have been enough to anger many long-term posters, many of whom simply don't come to M4M any more. There have been several mass exoduses from M4M over the years, each stemming from anger about how M4M was being run. If I recall correctly, most of those who left have done so over what they felt was unnecessarily heavy-handed management of the forums.

 

I can well appreciate that there needs to be some sort of compromise between total anararchy and no freedom in posting. Where to draw that line seems to be the sticking point and the current set of posts shows a fair amount of dissatisfaction with current policies. Yet there seems to be no sense that people who come here to post are customers or should be treated with any kind of customer service mentality. Quite the reverse, posting here is continually referred to as a privilege, one that each poster should be quite thankful for. If you don't like it, "here's the door."

 

When I became so frustrated in early June, I took the time to check the user counts. In the week prior to that date, roughly 2,500 individual people had visited M4M at least once. Of those, roughly 250 had made at least one post. Of those, only 25 had posted more than 9 posts in their entire history at M4M. So, for that one week at least, a couple dozen posters were contributing most of the material here while a couple hundred more were adding some additional contributions.

 

It needs stating that all of the content on this entire site -- Message Center and Reviews -- is contributed by visitors. No original content is created by whatever organization is behind the site. This is neither good nor bad but it's astonishing when coupled with an attitude that says "here's the door" to every complaint. One would think that M4M, Inc. would be falling all over itself trying to keep its customers -- and yes, we are customers, who consume what is created here -- happy and contributing. There's a disconnect here that I just don't get.

 

In another thread, Daddy asks "What's wrong with this picture?" I echo his sentiment but see a different confusing picture. It's not surprising that so many interesting posters have left over the years. What's more surprising, to me at least, is that any of us are still hanging around.

 

The incident that so infuriated me involved two posts that I had started. Both were moved by a moderator, from the Lounge to the Politics forum. Neither was political in nature. However, in each case, a moderator had added political content to them and then, judging them to now be political, arbitrarily moved them to the Politics forum -- where they died almost immediately, as I expected they would. My judgment that the Lounge was the proper place for the threads I chose to start was overridden by a moderator (Trilingual, I believe). How long I have participated in M4M or how much I have contributed here was of no concern: the unnamed moderator took a look at the threads and moved them to their demise.

 

I don't know how anyone else does it. But when I start a thread here, I think about it, consider what I am going to write and then try to state my thoughts as clearly as possible. I'll often spend an hour or more if the topic is one that concerns me. Having that effort thrown away by a moderator who decides to condemn a thread to an early death is aggravating on many levels, not least of which is the in-your-face substitution of judgment about where a thread should reside.

 

I assume that most of us here are quite busy. I know that I am. My time is valuable to me and I try to spend it wisely. When I spend it on behalf of others, it's either because I believe the effort to be worthwhile or because I am being compensated to do so. It's quite frustrating to spend time carefully composing material to post here only to see that effort essentially condemned to the virtual dustbin.

 

Yet, stiil, I care about this place and would like to see it succeed. In fact, I'd like to see it do better than it is doing now. I'd like to see more people posting -- especially more escorts (although I am not so naive to think that will happen). I'd like to see more conversations started, and more interesting ones. Few discussions here today rise to the level of interest and passion that characterised many of the discussions of the earlier M4M. M4M today has been homogenized, for reasons that I don't understand. It can be better, it has been better in the past, and it can be better in the future. But that better future would require some changes in policy. I offer the following suggestions:

 

 

1. Recognize that the posters here are all contributors, who are collectively contributing all of the content of the Message Center (and, probably, much of what is in the review side as well, since so many reviewers seem to be posters). Do not diminish the value of what they contribute, for it is the heart and soul of this site. (By the way, lurkers are also customers and are valuable in their own way.)

 

2. Recognize that those who come here are grown-ups. Difficult topics, in-your-face discussions and great passion are good things, not bad things. Yes, as Daddy argues, ad hominem attacks are lousy, uncivilized and not fun, at least for the person being attacked. But I for one would far rather have an M4M that had passion and fire and enthusiasm and great discussions than one where the most passionate discussions are those concerning the management of M4M itself. Posters don't need to be defended by management. It's a big world out there and we're big boys.

 

3. Recognize that moderation drives posters crazy. Keep moderation to the barest possible minimum. I suggest:

 

a) Don't move threads. If a thread is started in a forum that isn't where it might technically "belong" -- and especially if it is started in the Lounge -- leave it there. Who cares if a thread is started, lives and dies in the wrong forum? Who is being harmed by this? Posters who might accidentally open and discover that it isn't something they want to read? How long does it take to push the Back button? Posters who complain about threads being in the wrong forums need to grow up a bit. It's more important to recognize the time and effort spent by the person who started the thread than the possible minor inconvenience to a reader who wanders in.

 

b) Sign all actions. When a moderator takes an action, he should make an immediate post in the same thread indicating exactly what he did, when he did it and why he did it. Anonymous actions by the moderators are even more aggravating that known actions.

 

c) Act only in the most extreme circumstances. If it were me, I'd disable the Alert button. The very idea of someone pressing Alert because they don't like what someone else wrote is anathema to the idea of a forum for grown ups. We are all grown-ups here, aren't we? We are here to talk about prostitution, aren't we? If someone doesn't like what someone else wrote, they should respond to the poster, not whine and press the Alert button. The moderators should take action in only the most extreme circumstances.

 

d) Ban posters in only the most extreme circumstances. VA Hawk was not my favorite poster. His negativism was grating, as was his constant insertion of frowning faces and his habit of YELLING all of the time. And, certainly, he was fast with an insult. But I'm not sure I'd have even banned him. It's a tough call and I'm happy someone else is there to make it. But banning should be only for gross violations of behavior.

 

4. Encourage escorts to post. I don't know how to do that; perhaps others here will have some good ideas.

 

5. Ask for ideas. A lot of people care about this place. Ask them what they think and listen carefully to their suggestions. M4M is not at a high point right now. It's not at its lowest, but there's a lot of dissatisfaction and a lot of people who don't come here any more. That might be frustrating to hear, but it's entirely possible to work very hard at keeping something going and still have it not be at its best. M4M still has lots of untapped potential. Ask for ideas. You might be surprised at what you find.

 

6. Value everyone. Every person who touches M4M has value: the posters in the Message Center, the people who write reviews, the lurkers (they add numbers to the site), the people who simply read the reviews, all have a part to play in this site's success. Value them all.

 

7. Consider adding one totally open forum, where anyone could post almost anything. It might not be for the weak of heart. But it might well become the most interesting forum here -- and be a reason why more people would come.

 

8. Welcome constructive criticism of this site and its policies. Those who take the time to write constructive criticism are often the ones who care about the place the most. Thick hides are good things on the Internet. It can hurt to hear that something we've done wasn't appreciated or well-received. But success comes not from hiding one's head in the sand but through continually trying to improve, even when that improvement is triggered by criticism that hurts.

 

 

In the thread Daddy started ("What's wrong with this picture?"), Doug offers several passionate entries. I often disagree with Doug, but I respect him quite a lot. He says what he means, he means what he says, and he's willing to call a spade a spade. He argues hard and diligently. As I said, I often disagree with him. And I wish M4M had a dozen more just like him. And Woodlawn, too. He and I have disagreed on countless occasions, on what sometimes seems to be every subject under the sun. But he's consistent, logical, straight-forward and unwilling to yield when he thinks he's right -- which he often is. He's like a kind of conscience and I respect him. He and Doug should both be listened to.

 

Yet many people might think of Doug and Woodie as being "negative" posters. I don't. I think they both bring something of real value to M4M, something that M4M would be the poorer for the lack of it. Many who have been here long enough will remember Truth Teller. He and I disagreed constantly and he aggravated a lot of people. Yet, in retrospect, he was on of the most interesting people ever to post here. I miss his presence and the passion and life he brought to M4M. Life was seldom dull when TT was around. He left out of frustration with M4M's policies and vowed never to come back. And, so far as I know, he never did. And we are the losers in that bargain.

 

M4M was a great idea when HB started it and it's still a good idea. It's come a long way but its past success doesn't guarantee its success in the future. I'd hate to see M4M fail, but that could happen. One of the best ways to keep that at bay is to have more people passionate about M4M and its success and fewer leaving out of frustration.

 

BG

[giovoni]

Hear Hear!!

 

..... unfortunately it sounded more like a eulogy for something I'll never know instead of optimism that I'll ever have the chance to see it.

 

 

"Deserve Victory"

[BuckyXTC]

Boston Guy:

 

I've missed your participation here, and I'm glad to see you share what's been on your mind.

 

While I concede that the management has the final say on policies here, and we don't really have a vote per se, I believe the suggestions you have offered are eminently reasonable and worthy of consideration.

 

Thread moving has always bothered me, but I guess never to the extent that I've complained about it. Not many of my posts have been moved, so I guess since my ox wasn't gored, I didn't give it much thought. I do somewhat remember your plea not to have your thread moved, to no avail.

I think a "no moving threads" change of policy would serve the interests of all concerned, so I certainly support that.

 

As for the alert function, I can think of one instance where it is useful, and that instance is this: if a poster decides to post personal information about an escort or member of the message center for the purpose of violating that person's privacy, I believe that any responsible member of this community would want to see that information deleted ASAP, and the guilty party dealt with according to the rules of the message center. The alert button makes it easy for anyone to bring that to the attention of the moderators quickly, without having to compose an email and remember who to send it to.

 

Yes, moderated forums lack a certain spontaneity that seems to flourish in unmoderated forums. I'm sure there are as many opinions on this as persons who post here. As much as I have tangled with Doug and a few others from time to time, I really think this place would be less interesting if those folks were banished.

 

I do think about new folks who timidly make their first posts, only to be assailed by some of the heavy hitters, often driving them away. I think all points of view should be heard. One of my major complaints with VAHawk was his tendency to demean new folks as morons or idiots almost as soon as they appeared and stated an opinion. Ethan could also be maddening at times, but also had a lot of interesting things to say. I also lament the departure of my all-time favorite, TruthTeller, who left at the same time I did a few years back. I returned, he didn't. TruthTeller frequently chopped off my head, or gave me a hard time, but in the end, I considered him a friend when I learned not to take some of his jabs personally.

 

As for VAHawk, I hope his suspension is lifted soon and that he can return, if he wishes to. This place needs all the gadflys and curmudgeons it can get, if it is to remain an interesting place to be.

 

It would be interesting to see what would happen if moderation was suspended for a month. I don't go back quite as far as you do, so I don't have any way of measuring what it was like before.

 

Anyway, glad you're back, and hope you're back to stay.

[Trixie]

Boston Guy, that was a great post. You really hit on some good points, and offered some good ideas. But just to play Devil's advocate for a moment, I'd like to offer an illustration as to why moderators may be needed.

There used to be, on the web, a great tickling fetish website called Ropejock.com, aka Jack's Rack. It featured, amongst other things, a lively message board. It was not as diverse as the many forums presented here, the discussions were pretty much always fetish related, or at least the always started out that way.

It was also not as technologically advanced as this site is. Perhaps that was really it's downfall. Over the two years or so that I was a part of it, I watched the board go from a community of like-minded people, exchanging experiences, stories and ideas, to a position of absolute chaos. Certain individuals, when faced with any sort of criticism, would "flame" the board with dummy posts. The arguments became unbelieveably hostile... believe me, this board, to my experience, has seen nothing like it.

Eventually the web-master, tired of trying to moderate the whole thing, just pulled the plug. First of the message board, and then of the whole site.

It's fortunate that this board was created and is moderated in a way that prevents certain people, who when faced with any sort of dissent, would "flame" a message board practically out of existence. Even tho' that can't apparently be done here, I think some watchful guidance by the moderators is necesssary. Any sort of organized discussion needs to be moderated. It would be wonderful if each and every one of us could moderate ourselves, but human evolution has not led us that far yet... however I am sure the Captain Picards and Deanna Troys are definitely on their way.

In the meantime, I think your criticisms and suggestions certainly have merit... but I am curious about the "Free-for-all" forum you suggested. In your opinion, would it be a separate forum, where any sort of thread could be initiated and posted on? Would threads from other forums that run out of control or off topic be moved there when the moderators see fit? Would it end up just becoming a place where the hot-headed could go just to trade insults for all eternity?

BTW... I noticed on the "Welcome" banner a few days ago that VaHawk has been allowed back to post, if he wants to. I hope we'll see him again soon.

 

Trix

[guyinsf]

I have a considerably different point of view. I read the message center far less than I used to because I got tired of wading through what I view as pissing contests. (Guess I'm just not into water sports.;-) ) If anything I think I might participate more frequently here if the place had even more moderation.

 

I'm not adverse to people having spirited discussions about their different opinions, but unfortunately some people have difficulty keeping their focus on ideas and instead seem to relish attacking other people.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest Love Bubble Butt]

Another poster suggested I check out the thread Daddy posted titled "What's wrong with this picture." While doing so, I also saw this thread. Since Hooboy is threatening to lock Daddy's thread within 24 hours, I decided to go ahead and just post in this one.

 

Like, BG, I too left this board awhile back in disgust. Disgust with the locking of threads, deleting of threads, moving of threads, and more importantly, the banning of certain posters. I agree whole heartedly that this is Hooboy's site, and as such, he may do as he wishes. But I also decided to take the moderators' advice to those who didn't like it: I LEFT. No biggie I'm sure.

 

As for VAHAWK. Of all the posters on this board that I disliked, I disliked him the most. Matter of fact, I despised him. And I made no secret of it. And it was obvious from his posts to me, the feeling was mutual. But having said that, I never wished him or anyone else to be banned. I'm a big boy. I can handle criticism and insults. And I never felt the need to hit this silly Alert button to whine about a posting that I didn't like.

 

Like I said before, it's Hooboy's site and he can make and enforce any and all rules he wishes. But I agree with some of the posters here that he certainly lacks consistency and fairness. But hey, it IS HIS SITE. And he doesn't have a rule that states he HAS to be consistent and fair. So that leaves each of with a decision to either participate or not.

 

I choose not to; I see nothing's changed. It's just not interesting to me anymore. I see that the threads are much more boring and the moderating much more pompous. Sadly, it was far more interesting with Ethan, Truth Teller, Hairydombrazil, FFF, and even Ad rian. It was even more interesing with VAHAWK (as much as it hurts to say that).

[Guest zipperzone]

I agree with everything that BG said. I find it particularily interesting his concept that we are all "customers" of the site and that in many instances, the moderators fail to understand or forget to remember that.

 

Sure - it's HooBoy's site - no one denies that obvious fact. Presumably he derives a profit from the site or else he wouldn't host it.

 

What would happen to his profit if everyone were to leave the site? It's not going to happen, is his probable attitude, and maybe he's right. But, out of the several thousands, who make up the membership, there are only a small percentage who post interesting and thought provoking messages. The more of these that get pissed-off and leave, and/or banned, the less interesting the site becomes for the others, and more and more will quietly pack up their tents and leave. It's what I believe is called a slippery slope. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the membership could dwindle down to the point where operation of the site is no longer viable.

 

And should this happen, no small amount of blame would rest on the shoulders of the moderators. Arrogance and a "let them eat cake" attitude is no way to run a message board where customers are needed to ensure the continuation of said board.

 

I have always wondered just what are the qualifications required to be a moderator? Are any special skills necessary or is it a case where if you are willing to take the time to do it - you're hired.

If this is the case then it is a dangerous policy.

 

I believe that moderators should only get involved in extreme cases.

 

I agree with BG that threads should not be moved on a moderator's whim. What's the harm if an odd thread is left to wither in the wrong forum. The world won't stop revolving!

 

I don't believe that threads should be locked just because someone thinks that enough has been said on a subject. They should be glad that there are enough people who think the subject is worth flogging.

[mercury40]

Q. Is your complaint with the way the moderators are doing their jobs, or with the message center rules they enforce?

[swallows22]

Hold on, lads. It will all be resolved when we get an in depth response form Rick Munroe.

[Barry]

Welcome back BG. You've been missed.

 

Barry :*

[Guy Fawkes]

> I truly didn't know if I would post again, at all. I contemplated simply leaving and not coming back: no

> melodramatic "last message", just simply going away. I considered putting DCForum (the software

> that runs the Message Center) on one of my servers and making it available; that's certainly easy

> enough to do. And I've spent a lot of time enjoying my summer. I hope all of you have done the same.

 

Good post. Several things I agree with, Several things I disagree with. However, it's 4:48am and it's been a long day and I am fairly tired. This pass I'll only address a snippet that's near and dear to my heart.

 

First of all, if you have the time and the resources I encourage you to create another forum. The Internet does not have nearly enough of these types of forums. Our community is wide, diverse, and multi-faceted. No one forum will ever be able to handle broad range that we cover. The more forums we have the better off we'll be on the whole.

 

But please, don't go into it with blinders on.

 

Don't Expect to do it on the cheap. When you first start, certainly a $500 computer and a $99 dollar piece of software will cover it. But, once your site becomes popular you'll find that you'll quickly overload your hardware, and your backbone connection. The M4M sites currently reside on five computers, Three of them dedicated to M4M and paid for by Hooboy. Two of them provided by my company gratis, because we're willing to share the resources out. The M4M site keeps a T1 connection full up the majority of the time at about $800-$1000 a month.

 

Don't Expect to have a life. Certainly, you can hire a good Administrator but it'll cost you. If you can't afford that administrator, guess what? It's all going to be on your plate. Hooboy spends I'd estimate between 12-16 hours a day. To the dismay of my business partner I spend between 2-4 hours a day, just keeping things running. That's 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Last year, I donated well in excess of a 1000 hours to the message center. Hours that I wasn't paid for and Hours that I'm not allowed to deduct off my Income Taxes.

 

Expect Death Threats and other various forms of violence. No often, Just one or two a year. I'm serious here, just the fact that you have a Gay oriented site will attract the attention of certain groups that will go to almost any length to scare you off the net. You'll have to prepared to evaluate the risk, and decide on the proper course of action.

 

Expect Law Suit Threats several times a year. You will need to stay current on what the laws are, How they effect you, and how to walk the thin line between what's acceptable to our crowd and what's acceptable to a Judge. Again you have to evaluate the risk, and decide on the proper course of action.

 

Expect people to complain to your provider a few times a year. Your going to be bound to your provider's terms of service. Each time a complaint comes in, your going to have to be able to prove that you've remained within your contractual obligations. You'll have to take responsibility for every single complaint, and be ready and willing to address them without exception. If they cut you off, you'll be down a minimum of two weeks, and more likely for a month.

 

Expect various Government agencies to maintain a fairly constant watch of your system. Realize that all it takes is one piece of paper for them to walk in pack up your systems while they conduct their "Investigation", and don't expect your hardware back quickly. For heaven sakes, make sure that your equipment is segregated so that your other business interests have a chance of staying intact.

 

Expect people to try and hack your system, on a daily basis. Systems that are popular are targets. You have to keep the software updated, and have to keep your data backed up. It's only a matter of time until your system is compromised. When it is, you have to quickly be able to pick up the pieces, close the holes, and get back on the air. Even keeping spares around for everything, having multiple layers of backups, notice the M4M has taken hits a few times over the years.

 

Expect people to challenge and test to the extreme every single policy that you have. No matter what, somebody will have a problem with it. No matter what, certain people will push to see what how far they can get. You don't get a choice, You have to remain within the terms of service of your upstream provider, You have to remain within the letter of the law, You have to remain true to your convictions.

 

Expect to be called every name in the book. That anything you say anytime, may be taken out of context and used against you. Understand that no matter the provocation that they will expect you to be polite, fair, and balanced.

 

Don't expect to make a profit for a long time. To the best of my knowledge, the Message Center has yet to pay for it's self.

 

On the other hand, Expect every once in a blue moon to have someone send you a simple "Thank you for being there". It almost makes it worth while. If you want to start such an endeavor, You'll have my support and I'll be perfectly willing to talk to you about the pitfalls and horror stories that have occurred on along the way here.

[+ Charlie]

Daddy, thanks for this very realistic perspective. While I agree with BG's analysis of the kind of message board I would like in an ideal cyberworld, you have reminded us very pointedly that we don't have one.

[woodlawn]

I also appreciate the calm and courteous reply of "Daddy." I would like to point out, however, that of the 10 problems he described that must be dealt with by anyone who runs a message board like this one, 9 of them seem to have nothing to do with the issue Boston Guy raised. I'm not sure the 10th -- being on the receiving end of complaints about the way the board is run -- does either. In fact, it seems to me that all 10 of those problems would still be present in some degree even if no poster ever indulged in the sort of nasty personal attack to which I was subjected, for example, by Hooboy and Rick Munroe in the previous "What's wrong with this picture" thread yesterday. So Daddy's post, while interesting and informative, doesn't really speak to the point.

[Rick Munroe]

>the sort of nasty personal attack

>to which I was subjected, for example, by Hooboy and Rick

>Munroe in the previous "What's wrong with this picture" thread

>yesterday.

 

That's so funny. Can you please quote my "nasty personal attack"?

[Rick Munroe]

>Hold on, lads. It will all be resolved when we get an in

>depth response form Rick Munroe.

 

Well, as my mother used to say, "Anything in moderation is okay." Let's all keep that in mind.

[Guest ReturnOfS]

Good grief!

 

All these posts about complaints against the moderators. Perhaps that should be made into a seperate forum all to itself. You can call it the Balcony or something, kind of like that part of The Muppets Show where the guys use to sit in the balcony and complain about what was going on.

 

LOL :+

[+ Oliver]

>... nasty personal attack to which I was subjected, for example, by Hooboy ... in the previous "What's wrong with this picture" thread yesterday.<

 

I assume (although one should never assume anything) that you are aware of his apology...

 

http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=70588&mesg_id=&page=&mode=full#70771

 

Oliver

[woodlawn]

>>the sort of nasty personal attack

>>to which I was subjected, for example, by Hooboy and Rick

>>Munroe in the previous "What's wrong with this picture"

>thread

>>yesterday.

 

>That's so funny. Can you please quote my "nasty personal

>attack"?

 

Sure. In your post #58, which responds to Hooboy's post #57, you ask "Who do you think cleans up the vomit?" What "vomit" are you referring to there, Rick? And to what persons does the word "who" in your sentence refer? Well?

[woodlawn]

>>... nasty personal attack to which I was subjected, for

>example, by Hooboy ... in the previous "What's wrong with this

>picture" thread yesterday.<

 

>I assume (although one should never assume anything) that you

>are aware of his apology...

 

Certainly. A very handsome apology indeed. Just as handsome as the one he made at the end of last year for his previous personal attacks. And the one before that. And the one before that. And so on.

 

I really don't understand why Hooboy wants to subject himself to all of this apologizing when he can avoid it simply by ceasing to demand that others ahere to a standard of conduct that he himself does not adhere to. In my opinion he should simply forget about this silly preaching and have a nice lunch instead . . . perhaps some grilled lamb?

[Rick Munroe]

>Sure. In your post #58, which responds to Hooboy's post #57,

>you ask "Who do you think cleans up the vomit?" What "vomit"

>are you referring to there, Rick? And to what persons does

>the word "who" in your sentence refer? Well?

 

"Who do you think cleans up the vomit?" is a nasty personal attack? :7 Honey, if that's a personal attack, then every single post on this board is a personal attack. I say we rename this the Personal Attack Center.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Threat Level Raised to Orange

 

Due to increased chatter detected by carefully planted moderators, the threat level for a personal attack was raised to orange today, according to the Department of Hoomland Security. Posters are advised to use additional caution in the forums today!

[woodlawn]

>>Sure. In your post #58, which responds to Hooboy's post

>#57,

>>you ask "Who do you think cleans up the vomit?" What

>"vomit"

>>are you referring to there, Rick? And to what persons does

>>the word "who" in your sentence refer? Well?

 

>"Who do you think cleans up the vomit?" is a nasty personal

>attack?

 

I see you don't want to answer the question. Again, to what "vomit" are you referring? Who vomited and why? Well?

 

> I say we

>rename this the Personal Attack Center.

 

I say we stop letting you get away with pretending that you never engage in personal attacks. I'm willing to do my part by bringing up the attack you made on me again and again until Hell freezes over. If necessary.

[+ deej]

>Good grief!

>

>All these posts about complaints against the moderators.

>Perhaps that should be made into a seperate forum all to

>itself. You can call it the Balcony or something, kind of like

>that part of The Muppets Show where the guys use to sit in the

>balcony and complain about what was going on.

>

>LOL :+

 

Ummm ... we actually did that a while back. People bitched about it. :9

[+ deej]

>I assume that most of us here are quite busy. I know that I

>am. My time is valuable to me and I try to spend it wisely.

>When I spend it on behalf of others, it's either because I

>believe the effort to be worthwhile or because I am being

>compensated to do so.

 

I'll simply remind you that every moderator could use those exact same words. It seems to be forgotten by a fairly large number of people here that moderators here are VOLUNTEERS.

 

Like Daddy, I encourage you to open your own site. Everyone should experience the UTTER HOSTILITY heaped on a website owner/operator. No decision will be right. None. EVERY decision (Blue background? You CRETIN!) will be armchair quarterbacked. Expect hatred and threats to become a part of your daily routine. Expect broad and sweeping statements about how wrong you are from people who don't know what they're talking about. And through it all, remember to be chipper and friendly. Perky, even. ;-) And then someone will complain about *that*.

 

I was glad to see Daddy pointed out in the other thread that, to date, there have been a total of THREE banishments. Apparently this was a life-upheaval for you. I'm sorry for that. However, in each case the individual was given guidance and ample opportunity to self-moderate. They participated in the final disposition far more than any site admin.

 

While I agree with much of what you've written, to a point, I also see the other side of the coin.

[+ Oliver]

>Certainly. A very handsome apology indeed. Just as handsome as the one he made at the end of last year for his previous personal attacks. And the one before that. And the one before that. And so on.<

 

Woodlawn, you are relentless indeed. You remind me of Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice – “My temper I dare not vouch for. It is, I believe, too little yielding – certainly too little for the convenience of the world. I cannot forget the follies and vices of others so soon as I ought, nor their offences against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost, is lost forever.” Of course, Darcy did undergo a transformation by the end of the book! Could you not just accept an apology graciously?

 

>...In my opinion he should simply forget about this silly preaching and have a nice lunch instead . . . perhaps some grilled lamb?<

 

And, perhaps, you could join him for said lunch (in my opinion).

 

Oliver

 

My apologies to Boston Guy for prolonging this discussion that has little to do with the original considered and thought-provoking post.