Potential Clients think I am a prostitute?

[Jamie]

Okay, so I advertise Body Rubs, the good kind

 

And I have had to turn down countless opportunities involving a very significant sum of money. This is partly due to the fact that they are either new to this business, or they are extremely careless. Many times it's after we start talking, that I have to tell them to look elsewhere; simply because they outright ask me "So I you going to fuck me all night?"

Or something like...

"So your body rub includes a happy ending? Can you just cum on my face instead?"

"How do I know you wont rip me off? I need you to tell me your offering me sex for money."

"Can I see your dick when you come over?"

 

Like.... Why are people so damned shady? How do I even react to people like this, and assure them I will give them what they want, without incriminating myself? I want their business, but I don't know how to tell them to act... Normal.. Like, I don't even want to respond at times, it's just so blatantly illegal it makes me paranoid.

 

I reassure them like "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" I send them naughty pictures and lingerie... They still wont get it, and i'm forced to tell them to get lost, i'm not a prostitute.

 

 

The amount of loss is probably over 3000 dollars in the last 30 days. Which is way too damn big of a number.

 

safe>sorry

 

 

Jamie

[BabyBoomer]

4 weeks ago, you wanted to become an escort. Maybe it's time to change from massage to escort.

 

~ Boomer ~

[+ purplekow]

Well after reading your post, I still am not sure whether you have a sexual aspect to your massage or not.

It is up to you to be clear. A simple: "Therapeutic massage only" or: "No sexual contact" makes it clear.

If you are open to a more sexual encounter then: "Full body contact" "Intimate massage"

[+ José Soplanucas]

I reassure them like "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" I send them naughty pictures and lingerie... They still wont get it, and i'm forced to tell them to get lost, i'm not a prostitute.

Jamie

 

May be it is my bad English, but that paragraph confuses me. If you do not want them to think you are a prostitute, you should not act like one.

 

I would like to welcome you here, but I am not really sure if I should. I think your language is neutral so I hope everything is fine, but it could be construed as you being offended because they think you are a prostitute.

 

Just in case you did not notice, Prostitutes (yes, capitalized) are held in a very high regard in this club.

 

Peace!

[+ Keith30309]

TL;DR See "bold"

 

I think this is something that i'm very capable of doing, I'm not sure if I could make what a lot of you guys are making because I don't really have looks. 140 5'9" White, My body isn't that bad but im super confident and a good actor, good at sex, things like that. Plus, making people happy is something I would enjoy doing, providing companionship and having fun sounds like a really rewarding job.

 

Anyways, I have no Idea where to start, I have gotten offers but for the life of me don't know how to proceed professionally. I'd like to be an independent, first most. So like Backpage, craigslist, Rentmen?

 

What is a reasonable rate? I had said 200$/hr to a couple of people to get an idea of what I am capable of getting and that seemed pretty reasonable to them. Even with a 4 hour minimum for new clients. Am I asking for too many hours?

 

How often do clients act unfriendly or 'weird?'

How can I stay safe and how do I screen someone accurately and afford-ably?

 

What amount of protection is absolutely required for 'this' much sex?

Should I make them wear a condom if I give them head? Should I wear a condom if they give me head? Personal Preference? Things like that..?

 

Whats it like to book someone the same day, and it normal?

How do I get over the anxiety that comes with the first appointment?

Can I send nudes prior to the appointment, or should I have that listed in my advertisement?

 

Avoiding the law is something I consider very important as I may pursue LE down the line, how do I assure my clients that im going to have sex with them, without saying im going to have sex for money; legally? I recognize that not all jobs are sexual, but I do hear that it's expected.

 

I'm just really so new to this I dont even know where to start. I have had a couple opportunities but really just haven't gone out of my way yet.

 

What is something that I should absolutely avoid, that a lot of people miss or do when they first start escorting?

 

<Ahem>

 

I would add something like "I give only therapeutic bodyrubs. Under no circumstances will anything sexual occur during your session." and see how that goes.

[Jamie]

Woah, people are keeping up with my posts. That's unexpected.

 

Sure, the majority of my clients and myself, end up developing intimate relationships. I have plenty of regulars that have I love to fuck.

Fyi

 

"I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life"

 

How can I get more explicitly sexual than that without incriminating myself?

 

Im sending them nudes, what more do they need?? A signed contract stating that I will have sex for money?

[Rudynate]

A lot of massage guys send very ambiguous signals. It's common for a massage guy to post extremely suggestive pics in an online profile, and then get offended when clients assume they offer anything other than therapeutic massage. So you may be encountering an unusual number of people who've been burned before. Really scrutinize your pics and your copy to determine what meta-message you are transmitting and therefore what types of clients you are attracting.

[+ DickyF]

Ok I think I get it - you don't want to explicitly state, and you don't want the client to explicitly state, what will end up happening. For legal cya.

How about the old "$ is for time spent ... what happens between consenting adults yada ..."

Are phone calls ok? Escorts normally want specifics so I'm not sure how to address your concern.

[Beancounter]

Let me make this easy for you, Jamie....if you provide anything more than a legitimate massage during your session then you are a prostitute. You're trying to sugarcoat the obvious. Get with the program or get out of the business. Geez.

[Bearofdistinction]

Okay, so I advertise Body Rubs, the good kind

 

And I have had to turn down countless opportunities involving a very significant sum of money. This is partly due to the fact that they are either new to this business, or they are extremely careless. Many times it's after we start talking, that I have to tell them to look elsewhere; simply because they outright ask me "So I you going to fuck me all night?"

Or something like...

"So your body rub includes a happy ending? Can you just cum on my face instead?"

"How do I know you wont rip me off? I need you to tell me your offering me sex for money."

"Can I see your dick when you come over?"

 

Like.... Why are people so damned shady? How do I even react to people like this, and assure them I will give them what they want, without incriminating myself? I want their business, but I don't know how to tell them to act... Normal.. Like, I don't even want to respond at times, it's just so blatantly illegal it makes me paranoid.

 

I reassure them like "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" I send them naughty pictures and lingerie... They still wont get it, and i'm forced to tell them to get lost, i'm not a prostitute.

 

 

The amount of loss is probably over 3000 dollars in the last 30 days. Which is way too damn big of a number.

 

safe>sorry

 

 

Jamie

 

Guys - After reading this and the responses my gut reaction is. . . .

 

RUN FORREST RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[+ saminseattle]

I am very sympathetic to the OP. We live in a world where people cannot always be transparent and clear in their communications, which naturally leads to much confusion for everyone. This thread reminds me a bit of the one @hunterlee started a few months ago: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/clients-who-speak-explicitly.109974/ There are a number of similar threads I’ve seen in just my short time here and the following, for what it’s worth, is my attempt to synthesize some of the key points I’ve taken from them:

 

First, no service provider should let a potential client pressure him into doing something he doesn’t feel comfortable doing. It is likely to lead to regret and trouble. Also, I would not assume that people will necessarily put their money where their mouth is…some people just like to talk dirty but aren’t really serious.

 

Second, “prostitution,” which is one form of sex work, is usually defined as an exchange of money for sexual contact, and it is illegal in most jurisdictions. Sexual contact in turn is usually defined quite broadly, so a massage could potentially constitute “prostitution,” depending on what all is involved. Indeed, in New York, where the RB prosecution is ongoing, “sexual contact” even includes touching the “intimate parts” of a person through clothing if it is done to gratify the sexual desire of either party. So, if someone’s genitals are being rubbed, it probably crosses the line.

 

Third, escorting, which generally involves providing someone companionship for a fee, is not the same as prostitution. It is not a crime to pay someone to spend time with you. Sometimes people just want to spend time with a guy they find attractive, to go on a “date” as part of their coming out process, to talk about issues they’re having, to hug and cuddle, or any number of other things that do not cross the line into illicit sexual contact. http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/a-session-with-no-sex.111157/

 

Fourth, while escorting and massage are legal, they are sometimes used as a cover for prostitution, which is illegal. The police occasionally conduct undercover stings to crack down on prostitution. Even if someone claims that money is only being paid for the time spent, if a prosecutor can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what is really going on is an exchange of money for sex, then the people involved can be found guilty of a crime. Many sex workers and their clients are oblivious to all this and will be quite explicit in their statements, questions, and answers. This may be more convenient than using code words and hinting at things indirectly, and it may provide them more business opportunities, but it also entails some significant risks. I would guess that being ensnared in some undercover sting would be a very unpleasant experience.

 

Finally, I don’t know the exact nature of your services, and I don’t want to know. Some things are better left unsaid.

[LADoug1]

Let me make this easy for you, Jamie....if you provide anything more than a legitimate massage during your session then you are a prostitute. You're trying to sugarcoat the obvious. Get with the program or get out of the business. Geez.

 

A bit harsh but true.

[LADoug1]

I am very sympathetic to the OP. We live in a world where people cannot always be transparent and clear in their communications, which naturally leads to much confusion for everyone. This thread reminds me a bit of the one @hunterlee started a few months ago: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/clients-who-speak-explicitly.109974/ There are a number of similar threads I’ve seen in just my short time here and the following, for what it’s worth, is my attempt to synthesize some of the key points I’ve taken from them:

 

First, no service provider should let a potential client pressure him into doing something he doesn’t feel comfortable doing. It is likely to lead to regret and trouble. Also, I would not assume that people will necessarily put their money where their mouth is…some people just like to talk dirty but aren’t really serious.

 

Second, “prostitution,” which is one form of sex work, is usually defined as an exchange of money for sexual contact, and it is illegal in most jurisdictions. Sexual contact in turn is usually defined quite broadly, so a massage could potentially constitute “prostitution,” depending on what all is involved. Indeed, in New York, where the RB prosecution is ongoing, “sexual contact” even includes touching the “intimate parts” of a person through clothing if it is done to gratify the sexual desire of either party. So, if someone’s genitals are being rubbed, it probably crosses the line.

 

Third, escorting, which generally involves providing someone companionship for a fee, is not the same as prostitution. It is not a crime to pay someone to spend time with you. Sometimes people just want to spend time with a guy they find attractive, to go on a “date” as part of their coming out process, to talk about issues they’re having, to hug and cuddle, or any number of other things that do not cross the line into illicit sexual contact. http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/a-session-with-no-sex.111157/

 

Fourth, while escorting and massage are legal, they are sometimes used as a cover for prostitution, which is illegal. The police occasionally conduct undercover stings to crack down on prostitution. Even if someone claims that money is only being paid for the time spent, if a prosecutor can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what is really going on is an exchange of money for sex, then the people involved can be found guilty of a crime. Many sex workers and their clients are oblivious to all this and will be quite explicit in their statements, questions, and answers. This may be more convenient than using code words and hinting at things indirectly, and it may provide them more business opportunities, but it also entails some significant risks. I would guess that being ensnared in some undercover sting would be a very unpleasant experience.

 

Finally, I don’t know the exact nature of your services, and I don’t want to know. Some things are better left unsaid.

I like your explanation of the difference between prostitution and escorting.

[Jamie]

So quote me if i'm wrong, because it's a little difficult to tell; since i'm not getting very much positive feedback to my question...

 

I should try and be more transparent with my clients, relax and let my guard down a little bit. Sounds good, I will certainly try. Thanks for the kind advice! @saminseattle @Rudynate and @purplekow

[down_to_business]

While you may not have phrased your question in the most delightful manner, it was reasonable to ask and I for one did not like seeing the nasty comments you received. You sure didn't deserve that.

 

I think being afraid of entrapment and getting snared into other web of law enforcement activity is a very real and legitimate concern, healthy even. Walking the tightrope between what you can and can't do, should and shouldn't do is probably one of the hardest things a newer professional in your situation will have to face. You will develop/perfect these skills over time.

 

My 2 cents:

 

Listen to your gut

Don't take unnecessary risks

Avoid any specific conversations that want to tie specific acts to $

 

You can keep the conversations general, without sinking to that specific level. Avoid the cum on your face guy... there isn't going to be a general way to talk to him... but the can I see your dick guy might be assured with general conversation like the massage is given in the nude, or clothing is optional, or something along those lines. Just keep doing the best you can and avoid those blatant unanswerable questions that you feel are inappropriate to answer. Yes- if they push too far, do walk away.

 

All the best... and you may want to link your profile to your posting unless you want to intentionally remain anonymous.

 

Best of luck!

[+ nycman]

I think there's a lot of confusion and misunderstandings in this thread.

 

I'm under the impression that Jamie offers massage and doesn't mind

happy endings and full service...he just doesn't want to get entrapped

by the police and he's frustrated by clients who are too explicit in their

communications.

 

Jamie you are right to be concerned. I never, ever, ever, discuss anything

sexual with a massage therapist or escort, until after we are both naked

and one of us is getting his cock sucked. Hell, if a hot cop wants to go

that far just to arrest me....it's almost worth it for the story alone!

 

Be polite but stick to your guns. One arrest will wipe out any profits

that you're thinking you've lost. And from what you've written

I'd bet a cool $1,000 that at least one (it not all) of those calls

were from cops...not clients.

 

Clients, don't be idiots and put these men at risk. Read their profile.

Ask questions of other clients here. Make your decision. Then roll

the dice. If you've done your homework...you won't be disappointed.

 

Better yet, you're unlikely to get arrested....think with your big head!

[+ jc808]

Jamie, your instincts are good. Follow them, and listen to saminseattle, down_to_business and nycman. They give good advice. It's your potential clients who are out of line here.

[Brian Kevin]

"Yes I will fuck you"

 

"Yes I will nut on your face"

 

Go ahead! I'm sure your ass ha Grindr and I'm sure you talk even dirtier there.

 

This is NOT the industry to act like an angel.

 

I sympathize with you on the struggle, but at the end of the day-- suck dat dick.

[LivingnLA]

Great thread, thank you @Jamie for raising this issue. I have a few thoughts...

 

A massage therapist never does anything erotic or sexual during a session. They are professional therapeutic providers. "Massage therapist" is the currently preferred term for certified and/or licensed massage professionals.

 

Masseur / Masseuse are the terms for those who perform massage with erotic or even sexual content. These terms were used over a century ago when it was quite common for massage to be a cover for prostitution in the West. I make this distinction because some Eastern cultures continue to have erotic or even sexual activities in some of their massage modalities for various therapeutic goals.

 

There are therapeutic reasons for genital manipulation in some rare ER, pelvic pain, and incontinence cases. A well-trained massage therapist knows how to perform such pelvic floor work while remaining completely professional and nonsexual.

 

http://www.pelvicpainrehab.com/pelvic-pain-explained-what-everyone-needs-to-know/

http://www.pelvicpainrehab.com/male-pelvic-pain/460/male-pelvic-pain-its-time-to-treat-men-right/

 

@Jamie, given your posts, it sounds like you're trying to create a masseur business but run into explicit clients and you're worried about entrapment. That's a real concern, learn how to talk about your services in a way that clearly conveys your offering without being uncomfortable.

 

I'm fairly explicit when I communicate in my searching but I tend to frame it in terms of my fantasies, porn I love, what I dream about. Good luck!

[+ José Soplanucas]

Jamie you are right to be concerned. I never, ever, ever, discuss anything

sexual with a massage therapist or escort, until after we are both naked

and one of us is getting his cock sucked. Hell, if a hot cop wants to go

that far just to arrest me....it's almost worth it for the story alone!

!

 

Really? I believe you, but I do not agree. I never, never, close a deal with an escort (I am not into massages) without discussing very explicitly and in detailed what I am expecting to do and how much I am wanting to pay for it.

I would not do it in my first hirings and so I went through some disappointments. Since I switched to my current policy I am a very happy client and have very little complains about the Prostitutes I hire.

[Beancounter]

While you may not have phrased your question in the most delightful manner, it was reasonable to ask and I for one did not like seeing the nasty comments you received. You sure didn't deserve that.

 

He most certainly does deserve the comments from the above posters. I've reread Jamie's posts and they all indicate he is willing to perform sexual acts to satisfy his clients. I don't care what kind of window dressing he uses to disguise the services he offers. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it usually is a duck. Jamie wants his cake (money/sex) and to eat it too (safety from LE). That's not the way it works. I can guarantee Jamie that law enforcement and the district attorney's office would bury him in court if they wanted too. Once you slap your hand on a guy's sausage you can say good night, Gracie!

 

And I certainly hope he doesn't use the term "massage" anywhere in his ads unless he is a Licensed Massage Therapist (LMT). In Texas the law only allows credentialed individuals to use the word massage in their ads. That's another story though.

[Beancounter]

http://www.dshs.texas.gov/mt_mtenforcement.shtm

 

Just in case people don't think big brother isn't watching over massage therapists....think again.

[down_to_business]

He most certainly does deserve the comments from the above posters. I've reread Jamie's posts and they all indicate he is willing to perform sexual acts to satisfy his clients. I don't care what kind of window dressing he uses to disguise the services he offers. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it usually is a duck. Jamie wants his cake (money/sex) and to eat it too (safety from LE). That's not the way it works. I can guarantee Jamie that law enforcement and the district attorney's office would bury him in court if they wanted too. Once you slap your hand on a guy's sausage you can say good night, Gracie!

 

And I certainly hope he doesn't use the term "massage" anywhere in his ads unless he is a Licensed Massage Therapist (LMT). In Texas the law only allows credentialed individuals to use the word massage in their ads. That's another story though.

 

No intention of getting in a pissing contest with you, so my last comment on the subject, I'm out.

 

There was a lack of civility in the comments and that was unfortunate, you can put whatever content you feel like. We can agree to disagree. We don't need to run off every new poster in the process.

 

I think a goal for any client or escort or erotic masseur is to avoid arrest, I know it sure as hell is one of my primary goals whenever I partake in this hobby.

 

And I fail to see any relevance in the application of Texas law to Jamie unless you know the jurisdiction of his services and have a copy of his advertising, but again- we can agree to disagree.

 

Have a great day.

[MikeyGMin]

http://www.dshs.texas.gov/mt_mtenforcement.shtm

 

Just in case people don't think big brother isn't watching over massage therapists....think again.

 

I'm also having trouble understanding the hostility and finger wagging in this thread. The kid asked a question on a topic that has been discussed dozens of times. The verbal dance that most clients and sex workers do when they don't know each other and are trying to be cautious and discreet.

 

Is it because he dared use the "P" word? Would he have gotten less negativity if he had title the thread, "Potential clients think I'm an escort?" They are both sex workers, but most people (at least on this board) understand the difference between someone who advertises as an escort and someone who advertises erotic massage.

[marylander1940]

Okay, so I advertise Body Rubs, the good kind

 

And I have had to turn down countless opportunities involving a very significant sum of money. This is partly due to the fact that they are either new to this business, or they are extremely careless. Many times it's after we start talking, that I have to tell them to look elsewhere; simply because they outright ask me "So I you going to fuck me all night?"

Or something like...

"So your body rub includes a happy ending? Can you just cum on my face instead?"

"How do I know you wont rip me off? I need you to tell me your offering me sex for money."

"Can I see your dick when you come over?"

 

Like.... Why are people so damned shady? How do I even react to people like this, and assure them I will give them what they want, without incriminating myself? I want their business, but I don't know how to tell them to act... Normal.. Like, I don't even want to respond at times, it's just so blatantly illegal it makes me paranoid.

 

I reassure them like "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" I send them naughty pictures and lingerie... They still wont get it, and i'm forced to tell them to get lost, i'm not a prostitute.

 

 

The amount of loss is probably over 3000 dollars in the last 30 days. Which is way too damn big of a number.

 

safe>sorry

 

 

Jamie

 

Most of them were jerking off over the phone/email or just wasting your time.

 

I don't want to defend idiots but when you say: "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" you can just add that after the massage is over you become an escort... Am I right?

 

Do you have a link to your ad?