Potential Clients think I am a prostitute?

[LADoug1]

http://www.dshs.texas.gov/mt_mtenforcement.shtm

 

Just in case people don't think big brother isn't watching over massage therapists....think again.

How awful!

[Jamie]

You're trying to sugarcoat the obvious.

I'm not sugarcoating the obvious, I'm asking a question as to disseminate my service which is OBVIOUSLY against the law. Many of you can't really discern the fact that i'm a young man trying to make a living without running into law enforcement. I sincerely care about my safety and the safety of my clients, if you think that it's reasonable to ever risk that; you should probably stop paying for escorts.

Jamie you are right to be concerned. I never, ever, ever, discuss anything

sexual with a massage therapist or escort, until after we are both naked

and one of us is getting his cock sucked. Hell, if a hot cop wants to go

that far just to arrest me....it's almost worth it for the story alone!

Thank you so much, I'm glad you do and feel the same. You would make me feel so safe, I'd prefer to work with you; over any of the guys I mentioned, or even many of the people on this message board.. Any day!

 

Message me if you ever come through Portland Oregon and ill throw you some photos and a discount:)

 

This is NOT the industry to act like an angel.

 

Honey, I am asking how to avoid breaking the law. Not, whatever your implying.

 

He most certainly does deserve the comments from the above posters.

I asked a simple question, maybe I said a little more than I should have. But I am a damned good person, I work hard I have three jobs and I am a fulltime student. I absolutely do not deserve any hostility from anyone. I deserve the absolute best, and I am sure many people would agree with me.

 

you can just add that after the massage is over you become an escort... Am I right?

 

Do you have a link to your ad?

 

Eventually I plan to become an escort, I am just figuring out how the game works before I jump into a business I may or may not be able to handle. Yes, I am offering my time for payment, and yes generally we fuck as two consenting adults, free of charge. The premise for my service is a "body rub" which basically is like body oils and lotions... I think I didnt ask my question clearly enough.

 

I actually do not want to disclose my information to anyone on this forum, a few people are aware of my identity; however from my short time here. There aren't many people I would ever be interested in working with.

 

Sorry, nothing personal; it's a matter of preference, not discretion.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I'm not sugarcoating the obvious, I'm asking a question as to disseminate my service which is OBVIOUSLY against the law. Many of you can't really discern the fact that i'm a young man trying to make a living without running into law enforcement. I sincerely care about my safety and the safety of my clients, if you think that it's reasonable to ever risk that; you should probably stop paying for escorts.

 

Thank you so much, I'm glad you do and feel the same. You would make me feel so safe, I'd prefer to work with you; over any of the guys I mentioned, or even many of the people on this message board.. Any day!

 

Message me if you ever come through Portland Oregon and ill throw you some photos and a discount:)

 

 

 

Honey, I am asking how to avoid breaking the law. Not, whatever your implying.

 

 

I asked a simple question, maybe I said a little more than I should have. But I am a damned good person, I work hard I have three jobs and I am a fulltime student. I absolutely do not deserve any hostility from anyone. I deserve the absolute best, and I am sure many people would agree with me.

 

 

 

Eventually I plan to become an escort, I am just figuring out how the game works before I jump into a business I may or may not be able to handle. Yes, I am offering my time for payment, and yes generally we fuck as two consenting adults, free of charge. The premise for my service is a "body rub" which basically is like body oils and lotions... I think I didnt ask my question clearly enough.

 

I actually do not want to disclose my information to anyone on this forum, a few people are aware of my identity; however from my short time here. There aren't many people I would ever be interested in working with.

 

Sorry, nothing personal; it's a matter of preference, not discretion.

 

Jamie, I think a big deal of the problem here are misunderstandings coming from the way you worded your original post. Check my first reply, I was confused whether I should be helpful and supportive or confontative. After some other posters replied to you, I re read your post and understood better what you were asking.

[+ quoththeraven]

I like your explanation of the difference between prostitution and escorting.

 

The way most laws are written (sex for money, not a specific sex act for money) and given client expectations, I do not see a real difference. I would only agree if the client understands the same amount is owed irrespective of whether anything sexual occurs, as it is all up to whim and chemistry. That also means no talk of dickering or lowering the price if the escort doesn't come, doesn't perform, doesn't fuck, can't stay erect, won't bottom or top, and no bad reviews short of muggings or misrepresentation of one's looks because all that is promised is time and companionship.

 

Now do you (the reader, not LADoug) understand why time and companionship is a figleaf?

[Brian Kevin]

Top four cities to get busted in :

 

1. Indianapolis (weekly stings male/female/TS)

 

2. LA

 

3. Pittsburg

 

4. DC

 

If your not in one of those 4 cities, you don't have much to worry about. nothing you say via text or email can be used against you in a court of law. Someone else was using your phone/email. It's face to face you gotta worry about. Jamie give me a call and let's talk. I'll give you the run-down and dos and don'ts with face to face conversations. That's how the cops will bust you. Not a text, phone call or email. Face. To. Face.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Top four cities to get busted in :

 

1. Indianapolis (weekly stings male/female/TS)

 

2. LA

 

3. Pittsburg

 

4. DC

 

If your not in one of those 4 cities, you don't have much to worry about. nothing you say via text or email can be used against you in a court of law. Someone else was using your phone/email. It's face to face you gotta worry about. Jamie give me a call and let's talk. I'll give you the run-down and dos and don'ts with face to face conversations. That's how the cops will bust you. Not a text, phone call or email. Face. To. Face.

 

Dc? Wow, I had no idea.

[Brian Kevin]

Dc? Wow, I had no idea.

 

I didn't think so either

[LivingnLA]

This got me curious, which led to this...

 

http://www.11points.com/Dating-Sex/11_Myths_and_Facts_About_Prostitution_in_America

 

Some interesting info and even though the post is from 2010, worth sharing.

 

FACT: In the U.S., prostitutes get busted more often than johns.

And it's not even close. Every year in the U.S., between 70,000 and 80,000 people are busted for prostitution. (Which costs taxpayers $200 million, by the way.)

 

The breakdown of arrests: 70 percent female prostitutes and madams, 20 percent male prostitutes and pimps, 10 percent johns. That's nine prostitutes being arrested for every one customer.

 

So, if you want to play the odds, follow the lead of your wise elected leaders and make sure you're the one paying for sex, not selling it.

[stop]

Top four cities to get busted in :

 

1. Indianapolis (weekly stings male/female/TS)

 

2. LA

 

3. Pittsburg

 

4. DC

 

If your not in one of those 4 cities, you don't have much to worry about. nothing you say via text or email can be used against you in a court of law. Someone else was using your phone/email. It's face to face you gotta worry about. Jamie give me a call and let's talk. I'll give you the run-down and dos and don'ts with face to face conversations. That's how the cops will bust you. Not a text, phone call or email. Face. To. Face.

 

 

Brian, where is the data on this or where did you get the info from? I am surprised to see LA on the list would have expected a couple other cities above it. Curious how the rest of the US played out.

 

thanks for sharing.

[Brian Kevin]

Brian, where is the data on this or where did you get the info from? I am surprised to see LA on the list would have expected a couple other cities above it. Curious how the rest of the US played out.

 

thanks for sharing.

 

 

Personal experiences. Facebook and Google searching every number that contacts you. A lot of people don't realize their # is synced to Facebook. So when it says "LA PD" etc, etc... You get a pretty good idea of what their job is. Google search can turn up numbers used to be affiliated with stings. It doesn't hurt to cross your t's and dot you i's when meeting new people !

[+ jc808]

This got me curious, which led to this...

 

http://www.11points.com/Dating-Sex/11_Myths_and_Facts_About_Prostitution_in_America

 

Some interesting info and even though the post is from 2010, worth sharing.

 

FACT: In the U.S., prostitutes get busted more often than johns.

And it's not even close. Every year in the U.S., between 70,000 and 80,000 people are busted for prostitution. (Which costs taxpayers $200 million, by the way.)

 

The breakdown of arrests: 70 percent female prostitutes and madams, 20 percent male prostitutes and pimps, 10 percent johns. That's nine prostitutes being arrested for every one customer.

 

So, if you want to play the odds, follow the lead of your wise elected leaders and make sure you're the one paying for sex, not selling it.

I wonder how much actual human trafficking there would be if that 200 million were focused exclusively on that genuine problem and not on transactions between truly consenting adults.

[LivingnLA]

I wonder how much actual human trafficking there would be if that 200 million were focused exclusively on that genuine problem and not on transactions between truly consenting adults.

 

$200mil is alot to us, but it's barely a drop in the bucket for what we spend on policing across America and clients hopefully realize just how many prostitutes and escorts aren't actually consenting when they have no other choice.

 

Regardless, in the high-end female and male escort markets, there frequently seem to be more consenting adults, which is good. All clients should be pushing to eliminate human trafficking and exploitation. It's far more common and frequent than we like to admit.

[gezellig4u]

Brian, where is the data on this or where did you get the info from? I am surprised to see LA on the list would have expected a couple other cities above it. Curious how the rest of the US played out.

 

thanks for sharing.

And I would ask where the data about Pittsburgh came from, assuming that the OP meant Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with an "h" at the end, as opposed to the Pittsburg in CA and KS. I am highly doutbful that there is any serious targeting of male escorting in Pittsburgh, PA, a city that I know quite well. I also find it curious that these forums have been routinely silent about Pittsburgh for usually months at a time (posts about the Steelers or the Penguins do not count, sorry), but in the past 24 hours there have been two OPs suddenly sounding the "warning" about male escorts being targeted in (presumably) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In fact, I just did a quick search and there have been no previous "warning" posts about male escort stings until yesterday and today. Patiently waiting for some data...

[MikeyGMin]

Do you think there is a conspiracy afoot to smear Pittsburgh or something?

[gezellig4u]

Do you think there is a conspiracy afoot to smear Pittsburgh or something?

Not sure.

[Becket]

I have a giggle every time I run across the title of this thread, on this particular website. It's Casablanca again. "I'm Shocked! SHOCKED!"

[oscarkin]

And I would ask where the data about Pittsburgh came from, assuming that the OP meant Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with an "h" at the end, as opposed to the Pittsburg in CA and KS. I am highly doutbful that there is any serious targeting of male escorting in Pittsburgh, PA, a city that I know quite well. I also find it curious that these forums have been routinely silent about Pittsburgh for usually months at a time (posts about the Steelers or the Penguins do not count, sorry), but in the past 24 hours there have been two OPs suddenly sounding the "warning" about male escorts being targeted in (presumably) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In fact, I just did a quick search and there have been no previous "warning" posts about male escort stings until yesterday and today. Patiently waiting for some data...

 

I can't find any evidence, either. The only stings I can turn up in the media are female prostitution rings and most of those are in adjacent counties. There's also nothing in the police blotter. For the insufferably pedantic (like myself), the "h" has an interesting history. The city's name is commonly misspelled as Pittsburg because innumerable cities and towns in America make use of the German -burg suffix, while very few make use of the Scottish -burgh suffix. This problem is compounded by the fact that from 1891 to 1911, the official spelling of the city's name was temporarily changed to Pittsburg.

 

Do you think there is a conspiracy afoot to smear Pittsburgh or something?

 

Old prejudices die hard. Witness the Auntie Mame references in another recent thread reporting that a Pittsburgh escort had just been busted. If you haven't been to Pittsburgh lately, you should take another look. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[gezellig4u]

I can't find any evidence, either. The only stings I can turn up in the media are female prostitution rings and most of those are in adjacent counties. There's also nothing in the police blotter. For the insufferably pedantic (like myself), the "h" has an interesting history. The city's name is commonly misspelled as Pittsburg because innumerable cities and towns in America make use of the German -burg suffix, while very few make use of the Scottish -burgh suffix. This problem is compounded by the fact that from 1891 to 1911, the official spelling of the city's name was temporarily changed to Pittsburg.

 

 

 

Old prejudices die hard. Witness the Auntie Mame references in another recent thread reporting that a Pittsburgh escort had just been busted. If you haven't been to Pittsburgh lately, you should take another look. You might be pleasantly surprised.

I agree with everything that you posted. Pittsburgh is a very changed and livable city. But, it is still different from others. When I lived there (for double-digit years, I will add), there were reports all of the time in the regular media about female escort stings, but I never once heard about a male escort sting. Among the disposable income crowd the preferred escorts did not advertise on the RM/RB/M4RN sites, or on CL/BP, but instead were known by word of mouth. While I certainly know that some of these escorts got busted for offenses such as DUI, public drunkeness, punching a police officer, buying alcohol for an under-21 (but otherwise legal) boyfriend, possession of a lot of weed, and possession of a lot of meth, in my experience none were arrested under the charge of prostitution.

[RockyHardon]

Okay, so I advertise Body Rubs, the good kind

 

And I have had to turn down countless opportunities involving a very significant sum of money. This is partly due to the fact that they are either new to this business, or they are extremely careless. Many times it's after we start talking, that I have to tell them to look elsewhere; simply because they outright ask me "So I you going to fuck me all night?"

Or something like...

"So your body rub includes a happy ending? Can you just cum on my face instead?"

"How do I know you wont rip me off? I need you to tell me your offering me sex for money."

"Can I see your dick when you come over?"

 

Like.... Why are people so damned shady? How do I even react to people like this, and assure them I will give them what they want, without incriminating myself? I want their business, but I don't know how to tell them to act... Normal.. Like, I don't even want to respond at times, it's just so blatantly illegal it makes me paranoid.

 

I reassure them like "I promise I will satisfy you and I am EXTREMELY open minded and cant wait to take your clothes off and give you the best rub of your life" I send them naughty pictures and lingerie... They still wont get it, and i'm forced to tell them to get lost, i'm not a prostitute.

 

 

The amount of loss is probably over 3000 dollars in the last 30 days. Which is way too damn big of a number.

 

safe>sorry

 

 

Jamie

Not understanding this post at all "Body Rubs"? Either you are a licensed masseuse or you are not. If you are not licensed, then you are breaking the law (in California), and your ad means you are a prostitute, because quite simply an unlicensed massage for money is prostitution in all fifty states. If you have a license, then stop advertising on BackPage "Body Rubs" and stick to massage pages. Actually, this was a riduculous post and not sure why i replied.

[+ saminseattle]

quite simply an unlicensed massage for money is prostitution in all fifty states

 

I think you’re confusing a couple things here. Sometimes state or local governments require you to have a license to engage in a certain kind of business. For example, you need to be a doctor to practice medicine, a lawyer to practice law, and you may even need a cosmetology license to cut hair. http://www.beautyschoolsdirectory.com/faq/state_req.php. This may or may not apply to massage therapy, but people would need to look to their own state’s rules to find the answer for them.

 

However, none of this means that “unlicensed massage for money is prostitution.” It could just be a “traditional,” “legitimate,” “purely therapeutic” massage where the masseur has simply not paid the government its fees to obtain the license. Prostitution on the other hand is the exchange of sex for money. Just keep in mind that massaging someone’s genitals counts as sex, so if the massage involves that kind of thing it would probably qualify as prostitution, whether or not the provider had a massage license. Obviously, prostitution remains illegal in the US except for a few counties in Nevada, and the authorities occasionally do try to crack down on it: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/seattle-pd-massage-spa-sting.116048

 

My own opinion is that most of these licensing requirements are excessive and rather than being a genuine form of consumer protection, they are actually just tools that special interests use to shield themselves from competition. Similarly, my view is that the laws against prostitution, which make no distinction between what goes on between consenting adults and true sexual exploitation, are driven by puritanical moralizing and end up causing far more harm than good. So, to the extent people are doing sex work under the guise of massage or escorting, I have no problem with it whatsoever—unjust laws deserve to be broken as far as I am concerned. Still, if people are going to engage in something that is legally risky, they should probably take reasonable precautions to avoid getting caught at it. Unfortunately, this may require some ambiguity in communications between providers and clients.

[Beancounter]

I think you’re confusing a couple things here. Sometimes state or local governments require you to have a license to engage in a certain kind of business. For example, you need to be a doctor to practice medicine, a lawyer to practice law, and you may even need a cosmetology license to cut hair. http://www.beautyschoolsdirectory.com/faq/state_req.php. This may or may not apply to massage therapy, but people would need to look to their own state’s rules to find the answer for them.

 

However, none of this means that “unlicensed massage for money is prostitution.” It could just be a “traditional,” “legitimate,” “purely therapeutic” massage where the masseur has simply not paid the government its fees to obtain the license. Prostitution on the other hand is the exchange of sex for money. Just keep in mind that massaging someone’s genitals counts as sex, so if the massage involves that kind of thing it would probably qualify as prostitution, whether or not the provider had a massage license. Obviously, prostitution remains illegal in the US except for a few counties in Nevada, and the authorities occasionally do try to crack down on it: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/seattle-pd-massage-spa-sting.116048

 

My own opinion is that most of these licensing requirements are excessive and rather than being a genuine form of consumer protection, they are actually just tools that special interests use to shield themselves from competition. Similarly, my view is that the laws against prostitution, which make no distinction between what goes on between consenting adults and true sexual exploitation, are driven by puritanical moralizing and end up causing far more harm than good. So, to the extent people are doing sex work under the guise of massage or escorting, I have no problem with it whatsoever—unjust laws deserve to be broken as far as I am concerned. Still, if people are going to engage in something that is legally risky, they should probably take reasonable precautions to avoid getting caught at it. Unfortunately, this may require some ambiguity in communications between providers and clients.

 

There is so much misinformation in your post as it relates to massage therapy I'm not even going to attempt to provide correct information. However, I will say there is no such thing as unlicensed massage. You are either licensed by the state or you aren't. If you use the term "massage" in your ads and you aren't licensed you are in violation of the law here in Texas and I believe in the vast majority of other states due to license reciprocity agreements.

[Jamie]

I'll just pop in every week or so and inform everyone that wasn't willing to read the first or second page outside of my original post. Ironically, forums make it more difficult to communicate at times; especially for someone like myself, who has a hell of a time trying to making sense. .

 

 

 

I'm clearly a prostitute, duh.

 

I don't want to say that i'm a prostitute, to a client I have never met before. Because thats stupid, duh.

 

How do I make clients understand this boundary, all the while; keeping them enticed to commit to an appointment?

 

 

 

Please enlighten me, if you and your "prospects" just lay all the cards on the table, and agree that you both will be engaging in the solicitation of; and the act of prostitution. via zero concern whatsoever, because that damn well feels like what everyone is saying is the "norm" which is stupid as hell if you ask me. Also, im not offering massages; i'm offering body rubs that accompany my time

[+ saminseattle]

There is so much misinformation in your post as it relates to massage therapy I'm not even going to attempt to provide correct information. However, I will say there is no such thing as unlicensed massage. You are either licensed by the state or you aren't. If you use the term "massage" in your ads and you aren't licensed you are in violation of the law here in Texas and I believe in the vast majority of other states due to license reciprocity agreements.

 

We might be getting a little bit into semantics here, but I assure you that there is indeed such a thing as an “unlicensed massage” as Rocky phrased it. Just because you are not licensed by the state, that certainly does not mean you are physically incapable of giving someone a massage. As wikipedia teaches us, massage is a broad term that refers to the application of pressure to the body, and there have been many forms and varieties of it developed in different cultures throughout history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massage.

 

In recent decades, there have been attempts to standardize and regulate the practice of massage and many states have apparently set up mandatory licensing regimes. http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=13608. So, yes, someone could potentially get into some kind of trouble for advertising or performing massage services if he doesn’t have a license to do so, depending on the applicable state rules and how those rules are enforced. But that is not the same thing as saying “there is no such thing as unlicensed massage.” Based on personal experience, I think that such massages are fairly common. [i also note that while Masseurfinder mentions in its Terms of Service that some states require massage therapists to acquire licenses before “practicing their trade within the jurisdiction” the majority of the Seattle advertisers I looked at just now did not list any LMP #].

 

In any event, what I objected to was Rocky’s assertion that if someone gives a massage without a license he is engaging in prostitution. That is really a separate issue that has to do with what occurs during the massage, not whether or not the masseur has a license.

 

*I know this is a bit of a tangent from the original poster's concern, but I really wanted to clarify my earlier point.

[+ saminseattle]

that damn well feels like what everyone is saying is the "norm" which is stupid as hell if you ask me

 

Actually, I think it’s pretty hard to figure out what the “norm” is from this forum. These are anecdotes, not statistics. That’s not to say there isn’t useful information here, but you have to filter it based on your own experiences and common sense. I think your common sense is pretty good: If people are going to engage in some kind of activity that is probably illegal, it would be “stupid as hell” (although I prefer the phrase “taking a significant risk”) for them to be open about it with someone they don’t know, who could potentially arrest them for it. Employing a degree of ambiguity in communications is the safer approach. Of course, the risk of this approach is having somewhat fewer clients. It’s really up to the individual to decide which of these risks is more tolerable.

[pubic_assistance]

Explicitly offering a verbal contract of sexual contact for money is illegal in most places....so NO you can't be specific about sex+business, and not BE "a prostitute". Simple. Body language can drive the interaction in ways that may become more sexual. If you expect to be shown some gratuity for allowing this to happen...then you can simply ask the client. " Will you take care of me" ? It is after all supposed to be a matter human nature and not "commerce" at this point of the session according to the law. You then need to accept what is offered. If you want specific prices for specific sexual acts, then yes you always run the risk of the law punishing you for prostitution.