A New Forum -- Bitching About Each Other and This Site

[Uncle Bill]

I'd like to propose a new forum. We can have a contest regarding what to call it, but I've included my first pass at that in the subject of this post. With this new forum, those of us who don't care about the name calling and personal attacks can easily avoid such posts, and those of us who revel in them will have an easier time locating them in their own dedicated forum.

 

I'm just really tired of seeing all this shit. And before you say, "well, just don't read those posts/threads", I'll just say that I do my best to avoid them, but when the comments are interspersed within an otherwise innocent but interesting looking thread, that makes it a little hard.

 

OK, now I've vented (not very strongly, but I don't see the point of really putting much into this note since it will be ignored/ridiculed regardless of what I say), and, yes, I feel better now, thank you.

[+ deej]

We've done that, UB. The forum was called "Bitch, Bitch, Bitch".

 

People bitched ;-) about it so Hooboy killed it.

[bigguyinpasadena]

well please reinstate it-I would love to be able to skip all of these post since there is no ignore feature on this site.

[noviceny]

I have to admit, I do like some of the posts that are really off the fucken wall

 

Maybe its because I would never speak that way to another person, and I secretly get a laugh out of people going off on each other. I cant stand to see that shit in public, but its seems a lot less harmful in writing

 

Its kind of like South Park...soooo wrong, but sooo right

[Doug69]

>We've done that, UB. The forum was called "Bitch, Bitch,

>Bitch".

>

>People bitched ;-) about it so Hooboy killed it.

 

LOL! Ironic, deej! You've always had such a keen eye for irony. I love irony!

 

HB created a forum called "Bitch, bitch" and everyone bitched. LOL!!

[Doug69]

>well please reinstate it-I would love to be able to skip all

>of these post since there is no ignore feature on this site.

 

I hear ya', BigGuy. I know exactly what you mean. I personally hate posts where people spout effete cliches, contrive pompous niceness, and whine about other posters here. And while an Ignore feature would be nice, it's not really necessary, since I know exactly who those wretched posters are, and so - other than when I'm in the mood to mock - I just skip right over them.

 

That's why you haven't heard from me in awhile.

[Doug69]

>I'm just really tired of seeing all this shit. And before you

>say, "well, just don't read those posts/threads", I'll just

>say that I do my best to avoid them, but when the comments are

>interspersed within an otherwise innocent but interesting

>looking thread, that makes it a little hard.

 

Uncle Bill, how sweetly ironic that you are here to tell us how much you hate posts where people bitch about other posters and about this site, and to do so, you wrote a post which does nothing but bitch about other posters and about this site.

 

That's like writing a post about how much you hate homosexuality while you are sticking a finger up another guy's hole.

 

Or it's like writing a post about how much you hate pepole who gorge on fast food while you shove 5 Big Macs down your throat.

 

Or it's like writing a post about how much you hate drug use while you inhale from a crystal meth pipe.

 

Or it's like writing a post about how much you hate people with pets while you stroke your dog's head.

 

You get the idea. Here's the basic principle:

 

If you really hate posts that bitch about other posters and about this site, don't you think you should stop writing posts like that? Wouldn't that be a good start, Uncle?

[raife]

on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

As a 3 year member, I keep coming back here every few months to see if the tone of the place has become more positive, only to find the same few (count 'em on one hand) self-hating trolls spewing venom at some sincere guy looking for some support and a sense of community. Lord knows we get enough shit from society for our choices, figures we have to slash out at ourselves on top of it all.

 

I've tried posting in sincere mode myself only to have my head handed to me on a platter, so why bother. Guys post in bitchy-queen mode as defense against this shit, but that only serves to change the tone to one of bitter nihilism, driving people apart (and away), but I'm always heartened by the persistance of a few brave and highly evolved souls who wear their hearts on their sleeves despite the derisive daggers being flung their way. This (and the most desirable subject matter) is what keeps me coming back.

 

Why Daddy, why-oh-why can't we have an <Ignore this Asshole> button like so many of the other controversial sites (not 2 mention Usenet), that would let us enjoy the sweet cream of cameraderie while knocking out the few bitter wormy apples. This message board would be so much the better you'd probably need a bigger server to house it all (& I'd be most happy to donate).

 

My meager 2 cents, spend it as you will.

 

(pm me if you know of other supportive m4m$ communities that drop-kick trolls and nasty ad hominem - i'm interested in sincerity, support, and shared experiences - not bitter sarcasm and throat slashing)

[Doug69]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>As a 3 year member, I keep coming back here every few months

>to see if the tone of the place has become more positive, only

>to find the same few (count 'em on one hand) self-hating

>trolls spewing venom at some sincere guy looking for some

>support and a sense of community.

 

If it's only a very few guys ("count 'em on one hand") who are the mean, bad ones, why can't you just skip right over their posts? Why is that so hard?

 

I have posters whose posts I hate - the ones who traffic in empty platitudes about "support" and "community," for instance, or who demnad that they posts they don't like be obliterated - and I know who they are and I skip over their posts when I see them.

 

Why can't you do the same thing? Why-oh-why?

[raife]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

Boy, speak of the Devil and up pops a reasonable facsimile!

 

What hideous past experience damaged you to the extent that you find support and community so devoid of content that you wear this abusive dogmeat survivalist "kill the new-age pansies" mask?

 

I do skip over these/your nasties, and I lurk here much more often than I post, but I see its damaging affect on others, especially the newbies who come here in their naivete, seeking support, only to receive tobacco-laced spit in their face.

 

I remember your vitriol from before, oh dude the painful cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile your love of men-for-rent (why-oh-why else would you be here) and the traditionalist sodom-and-gomorrah homo-hating portion of your brain which might well want to see the whole lot of us wiped from existence, I'm amazed that your cranium hasn't exploded by now. Lie back and let us just hug you and love you and make it all better. We'll light some candles, play some soft music... Kum-by-yah... You need our love and we, yours... We're one big Universal Family. :*

 

Keep the peace, dude... It's all good

 

(how's that for an empty platitude?)

[woodlawn]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>What hideous past experience damaged you to the extent that

>you find support and community so devoid of

>content that you wear this abusive dogmeat survivalist "kill

>the new-age pansies" mask?

 

If Doug will forgive me, and without the slightest intention of putting words in his mouth, I will just point out that his prior post referred to "empty platitudes" about "support" and "community" as the things he really dislikes. He may have gotten the impression that "support" and "community" are nothing but empty platitudes for many of the posters here who use them. He may have gotten that impression from the fact that many of those posters are quick to spew hatred and contempt at any gay man who speaks or behaves in a manner that in THEIR opinion is not appropriate for the "community" to which they refer. He may have come to feel that those who label as "self-hating" anyone who does not agree with their definition of what is appropriate are not interested in establishing a "community" so much as they are interested in ragging on gay men who refuse to accept their ideology. And so he may have come to feel that those who behave in this manner are somewhat lacking in sincerity when they use terms like "support" and "community." Just a thought.

[raife]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

You guys make a wonderful tag-team!

 

Aren't you the guy who just today wrote the following sentences:

[blockquote]I think it is highly questionable whether we can call anyone "well-adjusted" who makes daily visits to a message board that exists primarily for the purpose of helping older men hire young prostitutes to have sex with them. And it never ceases to amaze me how often people with your proclivities, proclivities that are considered extremely abnormal by the vast majority of our fellow citizens, feel able to paste the same "abnormal" label on others.[/blockquote]

You're calling us all a bunch of what, maladjusted abnormals? And you're questioning my use of the term self-hating? Come on, my fellow m4m$ dude, can't you see the schism here? If not, I'd call it one whale of a mental block to section off the cognitive dissonance that seems to infect all escort-lovin' Bible thumpin' True Believers.

 

No, I'm not defending the brittle PC types who pooh-pooh anyone outside of their little liberal clique. I'm a proponent of a larger [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/06/what-do-i-mean-by-integral.html]Integral[/a] worldview that sees the urgent need for people of all persuasions to build a bigger all-inclusive community, and outgrow the cliquish ethnocentric bullshit.

 

Everybody is right part of the time.

[woodlawn]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>You guys make a wonderful tag-team!

 

Stay tuned. We're just getting warmed up.

 

 

>>Aren't you the guy who just today wrote the following

>sentences:

 

Indeed yes.

 

 

>You're calling us all a bunch of what, maladjusted abnormals?

>And you're questioning my use of the term self-hating? Come

>on, my fellow m4m$ dude, can't you see the schism here? If

>not, I'd call it one whale of a mental block to section

>off the cognitive dissonance that seems to infect all

>escort-lovin' Bible thumpin' True Believers.

 

Maladjusted abnormals? That's not for me to say. Unlike the bullshit amateur psychiatrists on this board who, for no discernible reason, think themselves qualified to diagnose psychological ailments in anyone who happens to disagree with them, I'm not stupid enough to try to evaluate the mental health of people I've never even met.

 

But it doesn't take a degree in anything at all to diagnose a bad case of hypocrisy in people who perpetually whine about the intolerance of the society in which they live while demonstrating exactly the same intolerance toward others. And that is an everyday event here.

[raife]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

[blockquote]Maladjusted abnormals? That's not for me to say. Unlike the bullshit amateur psychiatrists on this board who, for no discernible reason, think themselves qualified to diagnose psychological ailments in anyone who happens to disagree with them, I'm not stupid enough to try to evaluate the mental health of people I've never even met.[/blockquote]

Not for me to say? You did say! You're denying you stated these very words? And what makes you so sure I'm an amateur? You've slowly reduced yourself to an invective-slinging machine with little reflection upon the tripe you quite freely blast forth. Quite a sad mixed-up lad.

 

[blockquote]But it doesn't take a degree in anything at all to diagnose a bad case of hypocrisy in people who perpetually whine about the intolerance of the society in which they live while demonstrating exactly the same intolerance toward others. And that is an everyday event here.[/blockquote]

Intolerance towards intolerance - gets a gold star in my book.

 

I'm done here so any further derogatory condemnation falls on deaf ears. Feel free to continue flailing away into the vacuum that was your audience. The self-loathing hissing is getting me down, and I don't have the stomach or the fortitude to play wit-tennis with your oversize snotballs.

 

I'll take my warmhearted and loving support communities, platitudes and all, over your self-inflicted guilt-induced Sinner's Hell any day of the week.

 

[a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/06/more-spiritually-evolved-you-grow-less.html]Evolve[/a], traditionalist dudes... it's not too far, you can keep your Conservatism, and the men are fine over here.

[woodlawn]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>Not for me to say? You did say! You're denying

>you stated these very words?

 

My post states that it is "questionable." Why did you lie about that?

 

>And what makes you so sure I'm an

>amateur?

 

Because a professional has too much respect for the terminology of his profession to throw around pop psychology buzzwords the way you do. It's pretty obvious.

 

>You've slowly reduced yourself to an

>invective-slinging machine with little reflection upon the

>tripe you quite freely blast forth. Quite a sad mixed-up lad.

 

I'm mixed up about one or two things -- still trying to figure out certain aspects of string theory, for example. But not about you. I know a self-righteous hatemonger when I see one.

 

>I'm done here

 

Mission accomplished!

[noviceny]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

Im not very well adjusted :-)

[Rick Munroe]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>Im not very well adjusted :-)

 

Me, neither. Isn't it fun?

[Funseeker 22]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

Nice try UB.

The "Dark Side" or the "Dukes of NoLife" always seem to re-appear.

I thought they were self consumed in their own board but it seems that they are getting bored with each other over there.

I wonder if any of these guys have ever met each other ?.

[Guest Conway]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

>I have posters whose posts I hate - the ones who traffic in

>empty platitudes about "support" and "community," for

>instance, or who demnad that they posts they don't like be

>obliterated - and I know who they are and I skip over their

>posts when I see them.

 

 

It's Funny, Doug. You didn't skip over his post trafficking in "empty platitudes about support and community". Instead you chose to attack him. If you ever ask yourself where others get the idea that you're a desocialized shithead, just refer back to your post above.

[Guest Conway]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

"and without the slightest intention of putting words in his mouth"

 

Since when has that ever stopped you from putting words in others mouths?

[hed4str8]

RE: on the negativity thing... June 2005 edition

 

Fun, they're rattling around in there all alone, and they're even starting to get on each other's nerves. They all need a wider platform, a bigger audience for their grandstanding. This one. At the same time, they're pretending that their little coven is already a "vibrant and active" forum of freewheeling & brilliant exchanges. Right. Like a grand total of dozen posts (maybe) that weren't from them since last Monday.

[Uncle Bill]

Thanks to ALL who have posted so far to this thread. Interesting to see the responses. Overall, it gave me hope for this place at a time when I was feeling less than hopeful to say the least.

 

And for the guys on the other board who are taking pot shots at me, my family wants for nothing (in fact, we're all pretty spoiled), and my kids are not in danger of being molested -- by either parent, but thanks for asking. Do I have issues? You bet -- lots of them. And do you know who my therapists are? Yep -- you do (I talk about them all the time right here).

 

I guess it's fair for people to be thrown off by my sceen name, which was a nickname that I was given in college because of the way I looked out after other people -- yes, mainly underclass guys, but in those days I was far more interested in women (mmm, Farah Faucet, LOL), and there was no hanky panky going on between any boys and me back then. Older guys had helped me when I was first in college, and I felt that I should return the favor. Anyway, I always liked that nickname -- and the reminder it gave me to treat others with kindness and friendship (in all possible cases, that is). And just like the Uncle Bill of TV fame, I've never been much for conflict and chaos, so when I come here to escape them, it's disconcerting that I can't.

 

Anyway, for those of you wishing to be nasty, I'll do my best to just ignore your posts on my own (but that automated "ignore" feature sounds really great to me). For those wishing the same diversion as I, I'll continue to eagerly seek out your comments. And I'll rethink my screen name since a lot of people seem to think it has inappropriate connotations (most of them are real sicko's on hook-up sites who are into underaged boys and assume that I am too -- and since I'd rather not hear from those types, another screen name might be better). How about NiceOlderFatMarriedGuyInLA? Need to work into that how I like younger, fit, cute guys -- is there a limit on how many characters you can have in a screen name?

[raife]

I went out to WeHo pride for a bit and it put me in a great upbeat hopeful mood about possibilities and new directions and all that. Talked to a group of refreshingly non-ideological 20-somethings and shared some of my [a href=http://www.imprint.co.uk/Wilber.htm]Integral[/a] views & got back some [a href=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560256117/qid=1118647905/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-4654600-4999323]End of Gay[/a] views and a lot of thought-provoking no-labels kind of stuff.

 

I checked out that other board and wow there's a whole lot of sniping going on, it's like a swarm of piranhas in a self-consuming feeding frenzy, but it's a total win-win for m4m. If that board takes off (not likely I daresay), the snipers will be kept busy there, leaving our more upbeat "gentleman's club" to sprout some nice fresh undergrowth. If not, they will either return surly but cowed, having had not enough fresh new faces to spit at, easily divertible, or faction out into further inconsequence. Be kind and just remember to intercede for the newbies and give them a heads-up, should the formerly-resident trolls lash out unexpectedly.

 

I was perplexed about some of the younger escort guys affinity for these spiteful old goats, but I see now it's all about comic relief, kind of like poking at a caged tarantula just to watch it rear up and hiss at you. Mean fun in a testosterone-charged boyish sort of way. Too much like a bullfight for me though, very cruel to the bulls, and not very sporting.

 

I agree, there is a lot of hope for this place, we just need to watch each other's backs and spread the peace.

[Doug69]

>I checked out that other board and wow there's a

>whole lot of sniping going on, it's like a swarm of piranhas

>in a self-consuming feeding frenzy, but it's a total win-win

>for m4m.

 

I love how so many people who claim to dislike uncensored, free-wheeling discussions and who claim to prefer contrived sit-ins of pompous harmony keep confessing that they "made their way" over to the "other board," read it, and now want to comment on it, despite themselves. Some of them even find themselves spending more time there - in some cases, A LOT more time - than the ones who acknowledge liking it.

 

It reminds me a lot of Religious Right types for whom it's not enough to simply turn the channel if there is something offensive on it, but have to scream and demand that it be kept off the air entirely - all because they know that while they rail against the evils of such programming, they can't help but secretly watch it, and the only thing that can save them from themeselves is if someone prevents it from being aired at all.

 

>I was perplexed about some of the younger escort guys affinity

>for these spiteful old goats, . . .

 

TRANSLATION: "I mean, after all, I can't believe that anyone has tastes different than mine - how can that be? And isn't it the case the hot 20 year old guys enjoy hanging out with middle-aged guys like me who sit around talking about evolved harmony consciousness and existing on the blue meme of peace? How can it be that these escorts wouldn't choose to be with me with all of my riveting insights and peaceful internal balance????"

 

>I agree, there is a lot of hope for this place, we just need

>to watch each other's backs and spread the peace.

 

If you are being held hostage on a Green Meme Socialist Commune by some gang of straggling 1960s incense-burning cult followers and want to be rescued, why not just be straightforward about it and say so?

[raife]

Douglas,

 

I've gotta admit, maybe it's partly due to the wee small spliff before bedtime, or perhaps the primal party mood from earlier in the evening, but I enjoyed the hell out of that post! Got your [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html]colors[/a] kind of wonky but otherwise I give ya my old Nod of Harmony.

 

Ghod bless ya, Rafferty!